| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15] > | We MUST quote in low-price jobs with OUR prices! Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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Arnaud HERVE 
France
Local time: 01:20
English to French
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Would you please explain what you mean with "challenged by educated people in lower income countries"? Do you mean that educated people in those countries believe the quality of Spanish translations in those manuals is low? In that case, I entirely agree, as many of them are translated in China...
I understood your first question but not fully the rest of your paragraph.
So, trying to answer in the dark, I would say that by "challenged" I mean that educated people in lower income countries can offer the same quality with cheaper prices.
Steffen Walter wrote:
I'm not convinced at all - so far, you have clearly failed to come forward with sound evidence on which your "general" assumption could be based.
Sound evidence? Well, it is obvious that I cannot produce a post-graduate paper on market statistics here. If I must, then all forums are closed.
No I cannot produce "sound evidence", but I wish it were demanded from people who argue prices are raising as well...
Please avoid the use of terms such as "general" when referring to your own experience limited to a small market segment.
This must be irony. I have been asking for several pages to keep away from personal cases and market segments.
By contrast, Andrew Steel's contribution sums it up rather nicely.
Unless you consider it a well written denial of the usefulness of statistics. Or a denial of the interest of conversation at large: why talk on a forum, since everybody is different?
I would still be interested in seeing the results for the types of basic translations I mentioned though. I still have a strong feeling that rates are decreasing.
And yes, rates are "decreasing" in general makes sense. Otherwise you can also consider that "tuberculosis is coming back in Europe" is irrelevant, because none of us here have tuberculosis, do we?
Anyway, you're all very intent today on asserting that the market is good. I can fully admit that and I praise your effort.
[Edited at 2009-02-04 13:09 GMT]
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Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Would you please explain what you mean with "challenged by educated people in lower income countries"? Do you mean that educated people in those countries believe the quality of Spanish translations in those manuals is low? In that case, I entirely agree, as many of them are translated in China...
I understood your first question but not fully the rest of your paragraph.
So, trying to answer in the dark, I would say that by "challenged" I mean that educated people in lower income countries can offer the same quality with cheaper prices.
I think I expressed my question rather clearly. Anyway: Yes, of course there are people in lower-income countries who can produce high quality. But that does not mean that they charge less than me. Many charge less, many charge more. It's hard to tell.
As for whether prices are increasing generally in my language pairs... I never said that. I only said that my rates are not lower today than 13 years ago. That's all I can say based on good information (my own records and invoices). I would not dare to say that rates are going up or down as I don't have information on the matter. Andrew already reported some sources you might want to check to support your point.
| | | | Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 01:20
Member (2002)
English to German
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Arnaud HERVE wrote:
I still have a strong feeling that rates are decreasing.
This is about business, not "feelings".
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 01:20
English to German
+ ...
| Different markets | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Anyway, you're all very intent today on asserting that the market is good.
Nobody said that THE market is good. Again: There are many markets. There is not one translation market alone!
And I think that no intelligent and informed person is denying the fact that there is a recession in many countries. However, the worldwide crisis affects people and translators in different ways. Some will lower their rates, some will raise them, some will disappear from the market(s), some will benefit from the crisis. I think that is what Steffen means by not "generalizing" things.
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Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 01:20
English to French
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| Jumping the shark | Feb 4, 2009 |
Tomás wrote:
Yes, of course there are people in lower-income countries who can produce high quality. But that does not mean that they charge less than me. Many charge less, many charge more. It's hard to tell.
Aniello wrote:
However, the worldwide crisis affects people and translators in different ways. Some will lower their rates, some will raise them
 You don't have the impression of becoming a bit far-fetched here?
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 16:20
English to German
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In memoriam
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
The present crisis is reducing activity. Or so everybody says. Even on Proz.com.
Okay then.....
| | | | Nadja Balogh
Germany
Local time: 01:20
Member (2007)
Japanese to German
+ ...
| I'm wondering... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Hi all,
I would just like to throw in one very general observation on something I’ve noticed whenever a thread on this subject is brought up: It’s always the same, say, around 10 people or so who rush to make it clear that their rates are only ever going up. The rest of the community however stays quite silent. I wonder what this means? I’m not trying to be ironic here, I am really wondering.
And, again each time such a thread is started, I’m sending out a praye... See more Hi all,
I would just like to throw in one very general observation on something I’ve noticed whenever a thread on this subject is brought up: It’s always the same, say, around 10 people or so who rush to make it clear that their rates are only ever going up. The rest of the community however stays quite silent. I wonder what this means? I’m not trying to be ironic here, I am really wondering.
And, again each time such a thread is started, I’m sending out a prayer of gratitude because my main source of income is from a language pair where dumping rates simply are not an issue right now, and probably (hopefully) never will be. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Maybe they don't have the time | Feb 4, 2009 |
Maybe people lowering their rates don't have the time to read the forums. They have to work 24/7 in order to make ends meet at those rates...
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 01:20
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Penelope Ausejo wrote:
Maybe people lowering their rates don't have the time to read the forums. They have to work 24/7 in order to make ends meet at those rates...
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:20
Spanish to English
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| Ye-e-e-es ... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Penelope Ausejo wrote:
Maybe people lowering their rates don't have the time to read the forums. They have to work 24/7 in order to make ends meet at those rates...
... but it does occasionally seem to work both ways, though, in the sense that people scratching for work seem to have a lot of time on their hands to read about people scratching for work.
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Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Tomás wrote:
Yes, of course there are people in lower-income countries who can produce high quality. But that does not mean that they charge less than me. Many charge less, many charge more. It's hard to tell.
You don't have the impression of becoming a bit far-fetched here?
Not at all. On what data do you base your idea that rates are going down? I said that many charge less and many charge more because I know from direct information provided to me by translators who send us CVs etc.!
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... but it does occasionally seem to work both ways, though, in the sense that people scratching for work seem to have a lot of time on their hands to read about people scratching for work.
I could not agree more!!!
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Margreet Logmans (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 01:20
English to Dutch
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| Staying silent because... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Just to answer Nadja's question:
I'm usually staying silent because
- I'm quite content with my rates and income
- there is no such thing as a 'general market' ad no 'blanket truths' exist
- there's nothing I can say for sure about other people's language pairs, rates and competency
- this is an endless discussion
Me, I feel it is important to
- have a good business sense
- a healthy dose of self-confidence
- market yourself we... See more Just to answer Nadja's question:
I'm usually staying silent because
- I'm quite content with my rates and income
- there is no such thing as a 'general market' ad no 'blanket truths' exist
- there's nothing I can say for sure about other people's language pairs, rates and competency
- this is an endless discussion
Me, I feel it is important to
- have a good business sense
- a healthy dose of self-confidence
- market yourself well
- deliver good quality on time, always
- be clear, reasonable and realistic in your communications
- not waste time on working for people who do not respect me and my skills
This way, I'm a happy translator. Wish you all the same. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Some statistics | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud, I don't know where you get your ideas about prices or that a bit of whining about English and Spanish somehow reflects a worldwide trend that should cause Lithuanians and Czechs to soil themselves.
Let's talk real statistics for a change - current data. According to the BDÜ Honararspiegel, a survey of average rates in different categories for language combinations involving German, here are some stats for your German to French pair:
... See more Arnaud, I don't know where you get your ideas about prices or that a bit of whining about English and Spanish somehow reflects a worldwide trend that should cause Lithuanians and Czechs to soil themselves.
Let's talk real statistics for a change - current data. According to the BDÜ Honararspiegel, a survey of average rates in different categories for language combinations involving German, here are some stats for your German to French pair:
Highest €/line avg. Lowest €/line avg. Most freq. €/line avg.
Agencies 1.08 0.87 0.95
Direct govt./courts 1.58 1.32 1.39
Colleagues 1.15 0.99 1.05
Private customers 1.40 1.15 1.27
Direct ind./business 1.52 1.23 1.35
Now for those who don't think in euros per target line, let me convert these data to euro cents per source word using Alessandra Muzzi's fee wizard:
Highest €/word avg. Lowest €/word avg. Most freq. €/word avg.
Agencies 0.1535 0.1236 0.135
Direct govt./courts 0.2245 0.1876 0.1975
Colleagues 0.1634 0.1407 0.1492
Private customers 0.199 0.1634 0.1805
Direct ind./business 0.216 0.1748 0.1919
And for those who think the world revolves around the Almighty US Dollar, here are the same data converted to USD:
Highest $/word avg. Lowest $/word avg. Most freq. $/word avg.
Agencies 0.198244 0.159628 0.174351
Direct govt./courts 0.28994 0.242284 0.255069
Colleagues 0.211029 0.181713 0.19269
Private customers 0.257007 0.211029 0.233114
Direct ind./business 0.278962 0.225752 0.247837
Now mind you, these prices are nothing special at all. They are average prices, which - translated into real terms - means prices that are achieved by translators who are average in their marketing skills. Those who are particularly on the ball will do much better of course. Please note, Arnaud, that the lowest of these averages are rather close to double that "unattainable" rate of USD 0.10 that you whine about. Now what conclusions should I draw from this?
[Edited at 2009-02-04 16:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 01:20
English to French
+ ...
Kevin Lossner wrote:
worldwide trend that should cause Lithuanians and Czechs to soils themselves.
I don't get used to your vocabulary. It prevents quiet discussion.
Kevin Lossner wrote:
that "unattainable" rate of USD 0.10 that you whine about.
Again, improper vocabulary. It does not help at all.
Kevin Lossner wrote:Now what conclusions should I draw from this?
Nothing for the moment. Get the data for the trends, over several years, and the representativity, from the crowd of translators.
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