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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿 Thread poster: QHE
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
+ ...
Fargoer wrote:
再看那位 “老学者”，人家是讲英语的美国人，居然敢大胆地直接写出“Alone fishing chill river snow”来！我不知道美国人读起来会是什么感受，这恐怕得邀请 wherestip 来评论。给我的感觉是相当的 " Chinglish "。  看得出，这老先生在揣摩原诗的意境方面着实下了点功夫，在英文表达上也是煞费苦心。
Ugh! It certainly looks like he was using a word-for-word approach in his translation.
On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license. 
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 11:45
English to Chinese
还是出名好！
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QHE
United States
Local time: 12:45
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意
从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断，诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境；而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾，余音缭绕，与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过，“await” 多少有点消极之意，我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。
David Shen wrote:
At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.
谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确，而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢？ 我试想从远处望去，钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近，于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词，但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说，我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).
Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this. 
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
+ ...
QHE wrote:
Fargoer wrote: 钓翁之意
从柳宗元其人和他写诗时的背景推断，诗中的钓翁之意决不仅在于实实在在的鱼或雪。所以我认为使用 “fishing” 不足以表达诗中的意境；而江南David 的译文以 “awaits a bite” 结尾，余音缭绕，与诗的意境更接近 (特别是 “bite” 一词多义)。不过，“await” 多少有点消极之意，我于是用了 “angling solo for a bite” 来体现钓鱼之外的意寓或情趣。
David Shen wrote:
At a quick glance, the structure or composition is great (if we can use these terms to describe a poetic composition). One word that sticks out at me is "bark". I don't want to bark at you but you might want to consult with Steve and see what he thinks. I mean how shall we treat the two characters 蓑 and 笠 here in a succinct way without too much explanation.
谢谢 David. 其实我也认为诗中的“蓑”译为 “palm-fiber” 比较准确，而不是straw 或 reed 之类。可是在古诗译文里用“palm-fiber” 是不是会加进现代色彩呢？ 我试想从远处望去，钓翁蓑衣的颜色和质感会与树皮比较相近，于是选用了 “bark cape” (本来想在前面加个介词，但我在这句译文中用一个 “in” 应该可以了)。这是我的自圆其说，我是认为在这个语境中“bark”一词不会造成误解 (btw, GTranslate 居然没有误译 “bark cape”).
Steve, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or comments on this.
Thanks, guys. First off I have to say, the nitty gritty you guys are getting into is way beyond my expertise in Chinese culture or poetry.
But since you asked, "palm bark fiber" or "bast fiber" both sound good to me.
https://textileartscenter.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/sustainable-weatherproof-wear/
Rain cape, rice straw, bast fiber, cotton, China, mid 20th century
According to the Textile Museum’s most recent educational tool, Social Fabric (please make a minute to check it, it’s so worth it!), this cape was made using rice straw that was folded and stitched together, assuming the appearance and functionality of a thatched roof. People in remote areas of China still wear these capes to this day.
Rain cape; palm bark fiber, bast fiber, cotton; China, mid 20th century
Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
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QHE
United States
Local time: 12:45
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Steve! | Dec 9, 2017 |
wherestip wrote:
Or perhaps one could leave out the material and just call the item a thatched raincoat?
I like the idea to leave out the material element.
[Edited at 2017-12-09 00:26 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
+ ...
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QHE
United States
Local time: 12:45
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Translating . . . poetry | Dec 16, 2017 |
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ysun
United States
Local time: 11:45
English to Chinese
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QHE
United States
Local time: 12:45
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Envisioning Chemistry | Dec 21, 2017 |
Chemists could always come up with great solutions!
[Edited at 2017-12-21 03:20 GMT]
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QHE
United States
Local time: 12:45
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
David Shen
United States
Local time: 09:45
English to Chinese
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| Artistic license vs. Lost in Translation | Dec 23, 2017 |
wherestip wrote:
Fargoer wrote:
再看那位 “老学者”，人家是讲英语的美国人，居然敢大胆地直接写出“Alone fishing chill river snow”来！我不知道美国人读起来会是什么感受，这恐怕得邀请 wherestip 来评论。给我的感觉是相当的 " Chinglish "。 看得出，这老先生在揣摩原诗的意境方面着实下了点功夫，在英文表达上也是煞费苦心。
Ugh! It certainly looks like he was using a word-for-word approach in his translation.
On the other hand, when one gains some fame, perhaps one's entitled to some poetic/artistic license.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license
...
But since you asked, "palm bark fiber" or "bast fiber" both sound good to me.
Steve,
Thank you for your valued opinion on this difficult-to-render part of the poem.
And I agree with you and QHE that, sometimes, it is better to leave out the material element in order to convey the main point, by eliminating the bumps that might spoil the whole purpose of reading a piece of literature for appreciation.
We translators are always treading a fine line between artistic license and "lost in translation." To me the palm-fiber coat or cape here is not some trivial part to let go, because it is a vivid description of what kind of person is on the boat. What to keep and what to dump is of course a highly personal choice of each translator I guess. Although I am no fan of 直译, and I seriously doubt any 直译 in literary translation can yield great results, too much freedom in rendering is trans-creation. While I respect all the works this scholar has done, I think he dumped too much in this case.
《有感于洋人译唐诗掉了蓑衣》
意 匠 经 营 未 足 奇，
翻 译 损 耗 更 合 理。
外 汇 要 收 兑 汇 费，
雁 过 拔 毛 龙 脱 皮。
Merry Christmas!
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David Lin
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:45
Member (2013)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Moderator of this forum |
wherestip
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
+ ...
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 11:45
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Merry Christmas | Dec 24, 2017 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmF2rsDHOZc
Grown-up Christmas List (Amy Grant)
Do you remember me?
I sat upon your knee
I wrote to you
With childhood fantasies
Well, I’m all grown up now
And still need help somehow
I’m not a child
But my heart still can dream
So here’s my lifelong wish
M... See more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmF2rsDHOZc
Grown-up Christmas List (Amy Grant)
Do you remember me?
I sat upon your knee
I wrote to you
With childhood fantasies
Well, I’m all grown up now
And still need help somehow
I’m not a child
But my heart still can dream
So here’s my lifelong wish
My grown-up Christmas list
Not for myself
But for a world in need
No more lives torn apart
That wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end
This is my grown-up Christmas list
As children we believed
The grandest sight to see
Was something lovely
Wrapped beneath our tree
Well, heaven surely knows
That packages and bows
Can never heal
A hurting human soul
No more lives torn apart
And wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end
Oh, this is my grown-up Christmas list
This is my only lifelong wish
This is my grown-up Christmas list
[Edited at 2017-12-24 22:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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” ), and oganesson (Og; “
” ), respectively.
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