Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
boletas ideologicamente falsas (Chile)
English translation:
invoices for professional services containing misrepresentations
Added to glossary by
Jacob Lagnado
Apr 1, 2015 11:32
9 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Spanish term
boletas ideologicamente falsas (Chile)
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Accounting
financial crime
From a Chilean newspaper report about prosecutors seizing a company's accounts:
Los fiscales incautaron información contable (...) Buscan determinar si existen pagos a terceros con el correspondiente respaldo de una prestación o se trató de boletas ideológicamente falsas.
My initial sense after some extra reading is that the expression refers to "entirely false receipts" or "fabricated receipts", but I would appreciate some help!
Los fiscales incautaron información contable (...) Buscan determinar si existen pagos a terceros con el correspondiente respaldo de una prestación o se trató de boletas ideológicamente falsas.
My initial sense after some extra reading is that the expression refers to "entirely false receipts" or "fabricated receipts", but I would appreciate some help!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | invoices for professional services containing false statements / misrepresentations |
Charles Davis
|
| 5 | ideologically counterfit invoices |
Sergio Gaymer
|
Proposed translations
+5
1 hr
Selected
invoices for professional services containing false statements / misrepresentations
Boletas first: these are invoices, but strictly for professional services, not facturas.
See comments here from those familiar with the Chilean use of the term:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/accounting/8119...
Then "ideológicamente falso". There are several previous questions on falsedad ideológica vs falsedad material, and a lot of nonsense has found its way into the glossary (NOT ideological vs material, nor negligent vs deliberate). Fortunately there are a couple of correct answers from people who know about law.
The point is really the one Robin has made: "ideológico" means that the document itself is genuine but it contains false information, false statements; "material" means that the document itself is false.
Here are a couple of well-founded previous answers. See the ever-reliable Rebecca Jowers here (in her explanation of this point in her answer; the question is about something else):
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_general/573...
And here's another valid one:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/certificates_di...
It may be that this could be rendered as "falsified" vs. "forged", but I think "falsified" alone would not make the distinction clear enough, since it could be taken to embrace "falsedad material".
See comments here from those familiar with the Chilean use of the term:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/accounting/8119...
Then "ideológicamente falso". There are several previous questions on falsedad ideológica vs falsedad material, and a lot of nonsense has found its way into the glossary (NOT ideological vs material, nor negligent vs deliberate). Fortunately there are a couple of correct answers from people who know about law.
The point is really the one Robin has made: "ideológico" means that the document itself is genuine but it contains false information, false statements; "material" means that the document itself is false.
Here are a couple of well-founded previous answers. See the ever-reliable Rebecca Jowers here (in her explanation of this point in her answer; the question is about something else):
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_general/573...
And here's another valid one:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/certificates_di...
It may be that this could be rendered as "falsified" vs. "forged", but I think "falsified" alone would not make the distinction clear enough, since it could be taken to embrace "falsedad material".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Taña Dalglish
: Yep! http://www.eldinamo.cl/pais/2015/01/29/boletas-ideologicamen...
47 mins
|
|
Thanks, Taña ;)
|
|
| agree |
Jennifer Levey
: In these particular cases (there are several) - which have been very much in evidence in our local media in recent weeks - I think 'misrepresentation' is closest to the mark, mainly for the reason mentioned in your last para.
54 mins
|
|
Thanks, Robin. I have to say that from where I'm standing, given what's been going on in Spain, these Chilean cases seem relatively mild!
|
|
| agree |
lugoben
1 hr
|
|
Thanks, lugoben! Saludos
|
|
| agree |
marybro
: containing misrepresentations
3 hrs
|
|
Thanks, marybro! I agree; I think misrepresentations is probably the best word to use here.
|
|
| agree |
neilmac
: Also presenting personal bills as company expenses when purchasing expensive cars etc.
4 hrs
|
|
There's a lot of it about. Whether it's better than banknotes in brown envelopes I wouldn't like to say. Cheers, Neil ;)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for helping clarify this point; the word 'misleading' also came to mind. "
58 mins
Sergio Gaymer
Chile
Chile
Native in Spanish
Chile
Over 25 years translating technical docs
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
ideologically counterfit invoices
Hope it helps
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Charles Davis
: "Ideological" is not used like this in English. All existing examples are bad translations.
4 mins
|
|
I am sorry to desagree with you. I have seen it used in the past in a few insurance related cases I dealt with. The expresion ideologically conterfit or false is perfectly understood in legal terms
|
|
| neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: Agree with Charles. Also, Asker refers specifically to a press report - presumably targetting the 'man in the street' - not a legal paper to be decyphered by lawyers.
1 hr
|
Discussion
Several Chilean companies and individual people are being investigated, and the expression 'ideologicamente falsa' covers a range of circumstances. The common thread is not that the boletas were 'false' per se, but that the stated purpose of the payment charged/paid was not that stated on the boleta. It is alleged that the 'real' (unstated) purpose was the occult funding of political activity at the expense of the tax-payer (by way of tax deductions from the revenues of those who made the payments). In some cases the boletas were apparently issued and paid when no 'service' was providad whatsoever; in other cases there was apparentnt 'ovecharging' (like a former presidential candidate who charged 20 million pesos just to chat with a bunch of company big-wigs over lunch.
The boletas in question are bills issued lieu of invoices, for the provision of professional services (consultancy, etc.).
In the meantime, one of the accused has publicly claimed that the criminal investigation into these matters is, itself, ideologicamente falsa.