Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

Это - кошка, это мышка (here)

English translation:

taking a stab...

Added to glossary by Tevah_Trans
Jul 25, 2007 18:46
17 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Russian term

Это - кошка, это мышка (here)

Russian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
This is from a poem by Brodsky. I would like to know whether he is playing on an actual children's rhyme, or just sounding like he is.

If the former I would try to play on a comparable nursery rhyme in English rather than being literal.

"От любви бывают дети.
Ты теперь один на свете.
Помнишь песню, что, бывало,
я в потемках напевала?

Это - кошка, это - мышка.
Это - лагерь, это - вышка.
Это - время тихой сапой
убивает маму с папой".

If anyone has ever seen this in English already, I would also be interested to know!

Zaranee blagodarna...
Change log

Aug 8, 2007 14:10: Tevah_Trans Created KOG entry

Discussion

Tevah_Trans Jul 26, 2007:
To Mark: great minds think alike :) I am going home. :)
Mark Berelekhis Jul 25, 2007:
Tevah, very much agreed :)
Tevah_Trans Jul 25, 2007:
To Mark: great minds think alike :) I am going home. :)
Tevah_Trans Jul 25, 2007:
To Mark: great minds think alike :) I am going home. :)
Tevah_Trans Jul 25, 2007:
I did - and so what? He put on his pants one leg at a time, just like everybody else.:)
Just kidding; I had to justify my own chutzpah somehow! :)
Mark Berelekhis Jul 25, 2007:
In that case, I would suggest clothing the translation into a known English or American rhyme pattern, ala "roses are red" or the like. Good luck!
Tevah_Trans Jul 25, 2007:
I did - and so what? He put on his pants one leg at a time, just like everybody else.:)
Just kidding; I had to justify my own chutzpah somehow! :)
Deborah Hoffman (asker) Jul 25, 2007:
Well, I'm only considering doing these 8 lines as part of an article on the person to whom the poem's dedicated...I don't know I have the chutzpah to really attempt Brodsky!
Mark Berelekhis Jul 25, 2007:
Totally agree with Tevah.

Also, as a general note, translating Brodsky is a major, major undertaking. I am both terrified and in awe of what's in store for you, all at the same time :)
Tevah_Trans Jul 25, 2007:
As Mark brilliantly pointed out, this is a peculiar poem; the translation would depend on your goal - ie, if it's used by your client to show the hardships of the times, it would be different than to show the irony and might of the Russian language. :)
Irene N Jul 25, 2007:
In кошка - мышка relations one is a predator, and the other is a prey. I believe there is a reason that we don't see smth like это мячик, это мишка... in the poem with the labor camp in it... Just any English rhyme might not do, IMHO

Proposed translations

+8
1 hr
Selected

taking a stab...


Babies come from love and care
You're alone now, my teddybear.
How did that fable go
In the dark, so long ago:

Here's a cat, and there's a mouse.
Vultures circling your house.
Old man Time, the sly and clever,
Taking Mom and Dad forever.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-07-25 21:29:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As Mark was typing his note, here's mine:

Old McDonald had a chicken;
Soup turned out finger-lickin'.
Time gets older by the second,
Birth will cause the death to happen.

Hey, just having fun, no?
Note from asker:
Wow! If I use it, I'll have to credit you! I'd really like to keep the lager'/vyshka imagery in there somehow, because the article I'm writing concerns it...
Peer comment(s):

agree SirReaL : And a nice stab at that
24 mins
Thanks :) I assumed the asker was looking for a serious translation, but it may totally not work if the irony is what we're after. :)
agree Mark Berelekhis : It's fun, ain't it? There should definitely be a poetry translation contest on this site. + You're too kind :) Although I often wish one could still make a living being a poet.
1 hr
I am up for it! :) But you will win without a doubt; I looked at your profile. :)
agree Alexander Demyanov
3 hrs
Thanks Alexander!
agree Vladimir Dubisskiy : America's got talent, no doubt :-))
6 hrs
Thank you Vladimir! :)
agree Zoya Askarova : :))
7 hrs
Thanks Zoya!
agree Kirill Semenov : great :)
8 hrs
Thanks Kirill!
agree tutta_karlson : what a nice stab!
8 hrs
Thanks :)
agree Blithe : WOW!!! я в восхищении:)
20 hrs
Thanks! :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
8 mins

just sounding

I don't know of any direct source. It's just the spirit of them nursery rhymes...
Something went wrong...
9 mins

below

There is no "кошки-мышки" rhyme. "Играть в кошки-мышки" is rather an idiom used to describe a situation of trying to be evasive, usually figuratively, by trying to misrepresent, bend, distort and, sometimes, hide the facts from some sort of an authority.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Here's the cat, and here's the mouse...

Here's the cat, and here's the mouse,
Here's the camp, and here's the guardhouse...

Something went wrong...
+4
1 hr

Brodsky parodying nursery rhymes

I remember this poem (ПРЕДСТАВЛЕНИЕ) very well. Here's the whole thing:

http://www.lib.ru/BRODSKIJ/present.txt

Notice a bunch of these throughout the poem:

"Жизнь - она как лотерея".
"Вышла замуж за еврея".
"Довели страну до ручки"
"Дай червонец до получки".

"Не смотри в глаза мне, дева:
все равно пойдешь налево".
"У попа была собака".
"Оба умерли от рака".

"Сочетался с нею браком".
"Все равно поставлю раком".
"Эх, Цусима-Хиросима!
Жить совсем невыносимо".

Etc.

Occasionally, you will find references to known nursery rhymes such as "У попа была собака", but mostly, it's just Brodsky as if jeering at them, which becomes quite clear once you read the entire poem. Many of them just "reek" of Маяковский and Михалков in structure and rhyme patterns, and the trick is the new oh-so different content that is now occupying these oh-so familiar rhymes.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2007-07-26 02:51:03 GMT)
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Here's my rough attempt to tackle this baby:


Sometimes children from love stem.
You -- now a desert under the sun.
Remember the song that time and again
In the twilight I sung?

Here is a violet, there is a rose
Here is a campfire, there is a hose.
And here is time -- softly waning the day
Taking your mommy and daddy away.
Peer comment(s):

agree Tevah_Trans : Thank you for finding this page, this is a brilliant read that I had totally forgotten about, i wish I could give you all my browniz and half of my kudoz.
38 mins
Thank you very much :) No need for any of that, though; this is the kind of thing I do for fun on my own time.
agree SirReaL : Awesome
58 mins
Thank you :)
agree Alexander Demyanov : Perfect explanation! Except most the "household" rhymes and saying used in the poem are not exactly "nursery" rhymes. However, that doesn't really matter for the concept.
3 hrs
Thank you. And yes, I did mean household, almost "national" rhymes, rather than children's.
agree Kirill Semenov
8 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
+1
17 mins

It's a cat, and it's a rat

A word play with the popular game of cat and mouse. The metaphore for hide and find, a pray and a victim.

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Note added at 18 mins (2007-07-25 19:05:03 GMT)
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a prey and a predator

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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-07-26 05:08:38 GMT)
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Here's a mouse, here's a cat,
Here's a guard, and here's a camp,
Here's the time that go in circles
Killing slowly mom and dad.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2007-07-26 07:30:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

tjhat runs in circles
Peer comment(s):

neutral Irene N : Кирилл, нейтраль за одинаковые мысли наверно странна, но... Rat image is too strong for a helpless prey. I'd stick with the mouse, and I feel pretty strong about it:-)
4 mins
играл с рифмой, ничего больше
agree Jahongir Sidikov
25 mins
Something went wrong...
1 day 14 hrs

spider/fly

Some of the answers already given are brilliant. I am just offering the spider/fly pair as an alternative to cat/mouse.

By the way, I am not aware of an existing translation of this poem, but that does not necessarily mean that there isn't one.

See the spider, see the fly
See the mirador, blocking the sky
See, as Time goes trudging on
Mummy and Daddy dead and gone
Something went wrong...
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