Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 30, 2015:

OK. It may be a good idea for the future to put it up. Although at the moment almost all Ro>En are Romanian and will know this term, you never know when it might be needed in the future.

Claudia Coja Jul 30, 2015:

Done! Glad I could help!

Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 30, 2015:

@ Claudia I suppose this is a possibility. In the meantime the translation has been sent off and I have let the client know. I have also learned a lot about Romanian language usage, and it has been very interesting for me. WIll you be posting this as answer? Otherwise I will close the question. Thank you for your help.

Claudia Coja Jul 29, 2015:

Is it possible that the father mentioned in the social report to be the step father? So the child has a natural mother and a step father?

Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 29, 2015:

Text The text is not from a birth certificate. It is from the concluding paragraph of a social care report on the family of a minor in Romania. They seem to have been living in UK while maintaining records in Romania.

NICOLAE CIPRIAN BERCHISAN Jul 29, 2015:

@Lara The word "natural" replaces on a birth certificate the name of the father. On a birth certificate you have:
Mama: XXX (the name of the mother)
Tata: NATURAL (the name of the father is unknown so "FATHER UNKNOWN")
Question 1: Has the father (who is previously mentioned in the text) recognized his child? If the answer is YES, then we have a BIG problem as the text is misleading. If the answer is NO, then "FATHER UNKNOWN" is the correct term in your context.
Question 2: What does the text say after "XXX 2014"? Or is it "XXX 2014" period?

Claudia Coja Jul 29, 2015:

Lara, the text reads "the child XXX, mother xxx and (father) unknown". The fact that the father is mentioned in the text makes no sense. I can not imagine a situation when the father is known but the mother is unknown O_o
Maybe the child was just declared with father unknown - or maybe the father appeared later...

Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 29, 2015:

Father unknown Yes, but I thought mama was mother, it does not say father. I don't understand. The father is mentioned earlier on in the text.

NICOLAE CIPRIAN BERCHISAN Jul 28, 2015:

@Lara Hi Lara. :)
The correct term in English is "father unknown".

Claudia Coja Jul 28, 2015:

Haha. Da, asa e - si nu inteleg nici eu cum s-a ajuns la alegerea lui "natural". Poate pentru ca are o conotatie neutra si nu "suna" asa de neplacut ca "necunoscut"

NICOLAE CIPRIAN BERCHISAN Jul 28, 2015:

@Claudia Da Claudia. "Father unknown" este mentiunea corecta in engleza. Cu toate acestea nu ma pot abtine sa nu remarc cat este de stupida aceasta mentiune in limba romana (NATURAL) pe un certificat de nastere!!! Suna de parca ceilalti copii, cu tati prezenti la datorie, ar fi progeniturile unor ANORMALI. o_O

Claudia Coja Jul 28, 2015:

Deci - asa cum s-a mai discutat, respectiv cf. soluției existente în glosar, "natural" în acest context înseamnă "unknown"

NICOLAE CIPRIAN BERCHISAN Jul 28, 2015:

Daca mamica, la momentul nasterii copilului va declara la primarie ca tatal este necunoscut, atunci Serviciul de Stare Civila, va emite un certificat de nastere pentru copil, unde la rubrica \"tata\" va fi trecuta mentiunea: \"natural\".
http://www.avocatnet.ro/content/forum|displayTopicPage/topic...

NICOLAE CIPRIAN BERCHISAN Jul 28, 2015:

Copil natural = copil născut în afara căsătoriei; copil nelegitim. /<lat. naturalis, it. naturale, fr. naturel, germ. naturell
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/natural
natural child = an illegitimate child; one born of illicit intercourse.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121028/local/Bir...

Claudia Coja Jul 28, 2015:

in this context I see "mama XXX si natural" - which means they have a name for the mother? I guess the cases where just the mother is unknown are very rare - if ever - because if there is a known father, there must be a known mother. If neither the mother or the father are known, this is another story - but I assume in this context the mother is XXX, and "natural" is used instead of the father's name.

Lara Barnett (asker) Jul 28, 2015:

@ Claudia Thank you. But if it is referring to the mother would that not suggest "natural mother"? (i.e. the natural mother is not unknown according to the rest of the report)

Claudia Coja Jul 28, 2015:

unknown (father) http://www.proz.com/kudoz/romanian_to_english/law_general/57...