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Ergaenzungspfleger
Dec 22, 2009 01:02
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

referenziert

German to English Medical Medical: Health Care
"Die neuen Texte sind einerseits auf die im August 2005 eingereichte Dokumentation sowie zusätzlich auf die neu eingereichten Unterlagen referenziert. "

Context: Updated information leaflets for a medicinal product.

What exactly does that mean? That the new texts are based on, or that they refer to, the two groups of documents? Or something else altogether?

Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
2 +3 refer to
3 +1 based
3 to be referenced from
3 referenced

Discussion

Lirka (asker) Dec 24, 2009:
Thanks, everyone, for this interesting discussion. I ended up using "draw on". "The new documents draw on the...." and then I went on saying..."They also refer to...
The word 'bezieht sich' in "Die Referenzierung bezieht sich auf" seems redundant.
Lirka (asker) Dec 24, 2009:
Hi Anne, yes, it does refer to PIL and SPCs and packaging labels as well.
As a non-native I could not judge whether that was bad German or not, I just did not understand it exactly :)) Thanks for confirming that it is!
Anne Schulz Dec 23, 2009:
IMO that is exactly the problem As I understand it, we are talking about texts which do not contain any citations or references, which would mean that the German "referenziert" was used inappropriately - and the question is: should one translate inappropriate German by inappropriate English. (However, lirka has unfortunately not yet confirmed that the posted statements refer to a proposal for a patient information leaflet or summary of product characteristics for an application for marketing authorization.)
Johannes Gleim Dec 23, 2009:
If "Referenzierung" is used subsequently you can't translate freely (based on ..). By the way, "referenzieren" is not the same as "beruhen auf" (based on). To reference means to cite, not to base. You can reference to a document and contradict to it.
Rosa Paredes Dec 22, 2009:
new structure You need to rephrase it. "The new texts refer to ..."
Lirka (asker) Dec 22, 2009:
The next sentence reads: "Die Referenzierung bezieht sich auch auf die EU-Responses to Questions..."

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
Selected

refer to

I have to say that this is, as you say in English, NOT A WORD!
Therefore, I am somewhat guessing the meaning myself (being a native speaker). Whoever wrote this definitely wants to sound VERY sophisticated although (s)he isn't.

the second sentence would then read: "They also refer to the EU responses..."

But to be sure you'd have to ask the writer of this text.
Peer comment(s):
agree Rosa Paredes : Yes, but you need to turn the sentence around: "The new texts refer to ...
10 mins
thank you, rosa
agree SusanneM
8 hrs
I know I'm late but - thank you!
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator) : IMO the original phrase is Austrian German, but it means exactly what you suggested!!//No, I am not Austrian myself, but I have many contacts and I live close to the Austrian border... ;-))
2 days 9 hrs
Ah, another Austrian... I will have to watch out for these. To you, as well, a belatet thank you!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, Jumplanguage. @Harald: yes, it is Austrian German...ah!"
3 hrs
German term (edited): referenzieren

to be referenced from

Anmerkung:
Das Verb „referenzieren“ wird praktisch nur in technischem Kontext, insbesondere in der Informatik, verwendet.
Bedeutungen:
sich beziehen auf, verweisen auf
Herkunft: Eingedeutscht aus dem Englischen reference → en

Beispiele:
[1] In dem Buch wurden zweifelhafte Quellen referenziert.
[2] Im Computerprogramm wurde die Variable mit einem Zeiger referenziert.

Abgeleitete Begriffe:
Referenzierung

http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/referenzieren




Please google for the phrase:
"text is referenced from"
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

referenced

"The new text is referenced to ..." (passive voice) or as Rosa proposed "The new texts refer to ..." (active voice)

The applicable NOM for a specific product must be referenced to determine what is required. (references)
Additionally, all chemical and biological substances must be referenced in the EINECS guide. (references)
http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definition/referen...

Notes: cite means to make reference to, refer to
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/referenced
Peer comment(s):
agree Rolf Keiser
2 hrs
Thank you!
disagree Kim Metzger : The new texts are based on the documentation and on the recently submitted documents. /Literal
19 hrs
This is a free translation, implying approval. A literal translation doesn't evaluate the content and dosn't merit a disgree! (You did not disagree to similar proposals of jumplanguage or Audrey, only to me, why?).
Something went wrong...
+1
11 hrs

based

Zwar wurde hier wohl primär vom englischen "referenced" her gedacht - von der Bedeutung her würde es aber ein schlichtes "based on" wohl auch tun: The (PIL?) text is based on previously (August 2005) submitted documentation as well as on the currently submitted documents.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2009-12-22 22:21:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oje-- "Die Texte sind einerseits auf ... sowie zusätzlich auf ... referenziert. Die Referenzierung bezieht sich auch auf..." --Ich fürchte, Jumplanguage hat recht und es handelt sich hier einfach um schlechtes Deutsch, hinter dem verborgen bleibt, was eigentlich damit gemeint ist. Und selbst wenn man sich als Übersetzer aus der Affäre ziehen und "einfach" wörtlich übertragen will, bleibt die Entscheidung, ob es "referenced to" (lt Johannes) oder "referenced from" (lt Audrey) sein sollte... ;-)

Aber jetzt im Ernst: Wenn dies ein Zulassungsantrag für ein Medikament ist und die "neuen Texte" der eingereichte Textentwurf für die Packungsbeilage sind (was ich vermute, aber aus deiner Frage nicht eindeutig hervorgeht), gibt es keine Querverweise oder Zitate in solchen "Texten" und die Bedeutung kann deshalb m.E. nur sein, dass der Textentwurf auf der Grundlage dieser und jener Dokumente erstellt wurde und auch die (Rück-)Fragen und Antworten aus dem Zulassungsprozess darin berücksichtigt wurden.

(Ob man schlechten Stil stilistisch schlecht übersetzen sollte, wäre vielleicht mal eine Forumsdiskussion wert - wenn es die nicht schon längst gibt. Ich habe für mich noch keine gute Antwort darauf gefunden.)

Note from asker:
Dear Anne, Thanks for your suggestion. That's what I thought myself, too, but then what word do I use for the "Referenzierung" in the next sentence..."Die Referenzierung bezieht sich auch auf die EU-Responses to Questions"?
Peer comment(s):
agree Kim Metzger : Die Referenzierung bezieht sich auf - the documents and documentation on which the texts are based
13 hrs
Thank you, Kim - and merry Christmas!
neutral Johannes Gleim : I would not use this transliteration as "base on" implies to approve the content. A referenced document is only cited, without any appraisal.
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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