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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Le vel

English translation:

The alternative

Added to glossary by Neal Allen
Mar 26, 2011 11:17
13 yrs ago
French term

Le vel

French to English Art/Literary Psychology
This is the name of a film about dealing with cancer. I have searched numerous dictonaries and cannot find this word. Is it even French?

Context: Le vel ou l’impossible choix, ou comment annoncer une mauvaise nouvelle (1998) s’appuie sur le récit d’une patiente atteinte d’un cancer du rectum réputé inoperable.
Proposed translations (English)
4 The alternative
3 the vel/forced choice
References
How's your Latin
refs relating to the text
Latin
Change log

Mar 26, 2011 12:50: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Cinema, Film, TV, Drama" to "Psychology"

Discussion

Bourth (X) Mar 26, 2011:
The History Boys Nope, it wasn't wartime (and if it had been, he wouldn't have said "gay" (which he didn't anyway)). Nope, it's from The History Boys, a film of a few years back:
"I'm a Jew... I'm small... I'm homosexual... and I live in Sheffield... I'm fucked".
And nope, I don't believe he had cancer to boot.
Bourth (X) Mar 26, 2011:
@Barbara I just wondered if there was some sort of sub-plot in the film (Jewishness, (perceived) persecution, etc.) that might have related to that. Was it a famous English person (or not) who said around the start of WWII, "I'm short, I'm gay, I'm Jewish: I'm stuffed!"? I don't know that he had cancer to boot.
B D Finch Mar 26, 2011:
@Bourth Sorry, I have been accused of being over-literal in interpreting things. However, given the history of the Vel d'Hiver it seemed somewhat insensitive to knowingly suggest it in this context, so I assumed that you didn't know.
Bourth (X) Mar 26, 2011:
Sorry, Barbara, having been accused in the past of crypticism and worse, I'd assumed my telegraphic intent was obvious.
Rebecca Davis Mar 26, 2011:
OK, I'll post it as an answer
Neal Allen (asker) Mar 26, 2011:
Thank you, Rebecca. I must wait the customary 24 hours, but I will award the points to you, as this is obviously the answer, as we are speaking about the "alternative" to life which is death. The film is an interesting treatment of the role of psychiatry in facing cance.
B D Finch Mar 26, 2011:
@bourth No, that "Vel" was short for "vélodrome"!
Rebecca Davis Mar 26, 2011:
No, it is used as a noun in French so your classification is fine...
Neal Allen (asker) Mar 26, 2011:
This makes sense. Thank you. Now how do it classify this term? Do I put it under "Latin"?
Rebecca Davis Mar 26, 2011:
Le vel (it means "or" in Latin) is sometimes used in the sense of "the alternative" in philosophical texts...Would this help you here?
Neal Allen (asker) Mar 26, 2011:
The only reference I can find to the meaning is in Hindu writings it refers to "a divine spear". I do not think it is connected to Le Vel d'Hiver.
Bourth (X) Mar 26, 2011:
No connection to Le Vel d'Hiver?

Proposed translations

49 mins
Selected

The alternative

See above
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your help. "
9 hrs

the vel/forced choice


Le « choix forcé » - Cairn.info
- [ Translate this page ]
6 posts
by C Hoffmann - 2002 - Related articles
... implique ce qu'il a appelé le vel de l'aliénation, ou un choix forcé. ... S'il choisit le sens en acceptant qu'il y a de l'impossible, du non-sens, ...
www.cairn.info/le-transfert-adolescent--9782865869855-page-...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gtjsrOj...

L'aliénation réside dans le division du sujet que nous venons de désigner dans sa cause. - cette structure est celle d'un vel [principe en mathématiques de la réunion] - Cette réunion est telle que le vel que nous disons d'aliénation n'impose un choix entre ses termes qu'à éliminer l'un d'entre eux - [style:] "la bourse ou la vie" (...) "la liberté ou la mort".
1. Reading seminars I and II: Lacan's return to Freud - Google Books Result
Richard Feldstein, Bruce Fink, Maire Jaanus - 1996 - Literary Collections - 444 pages
Lacan's classic example of his vel of alienation is the mugger's threat "Your money or your life!" (Seminar XI, p. 212). As soon as you hear those words ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0791427803

Alienation: International Dictionary of Psychoanalysis
Thus the theme of alienation in Lacan refers to what is called a forced choice, or vel, which is the Latin word expressing an alternative where it is ...
www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/alienation - Cached - Similar


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Note added at 9 hrs (2011-03-26 21:00:49 GMT)
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Alienation: International Dictionary of Psychoanalysis
Thus the theme of alienation in Lacan refers to what is called a forced choice, or vel, which is the Latin word expressing an alternative where it is ...
www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/alienation - Cached - Similar
Trauma and the Material Signifier - Postmodern Culture
The logic of this lost origin, produced after the fact of the advent of the symbolic, is nicely illustrated by Lacan's notion of the vel, the forced choice ...
pmc.iath.virginia.edu/text-only/issue.101/11.2belau.txt - Cached
Reading Seminar XI: Lacan's Four fundamental concepts of ... - Google Books Result
Richard Feldstein, Bruce Fink, Maire Jaanus - 1995 - Education - 291 pages
Lacan uses the logical definition of union, which is a vel. There are two classic vels and Lacan creates a third. The first vel he calls the vel of ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0791421481

sending this in out of interest, nothing more

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Note added at 9 hrs (2011-03-26 21:02:04 GMT)
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alienation: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com
The vel is alienating in that it gives a false choice, a forced choice ("your money or your life," "me or you"). The Master's freedom, which must pass ...
www.answers.com › ... › Literature & Language › Dictionary - Cached - Similar
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Reference comments

28 mins
Reference:

How's your Latin

Faut-il dire la vérité ou ne faut-il pas dire la vérité ?
Voici la question qui surgit chaque fois qu'on parle du cancer.
En fait, plutôt que de "la vérité" c'est d'une bonne information qu'il s'agit. Dans ce souci, le médecin pourrait proposer au malade un choix qui n'en est pas un. C'est un faux choix, c'est un VEL.
http://www.canal-u.tv/themes/sciences_de_la_sante_et_du_spor...

Comment sont determinees les deux affirmations sous ] esquclles appa-raft la premiere des writes scion I'ordre de la philosophic premiere? (VEL'>,
<<quoties a me profcrtur, VEL mente concipitur>'. Serait-ce une ontologie du
cogitable a double entree?
[ .. ]
La signification de «VEL» est a comprendre dans cc contexte de langage
attentif et de paroles mcnces au ras du pour mcttre a nu la premiere verite.
Est-ce un <<vel>> d'exclusion qui signifierait une alternance du signe d'idce
et de la conception tnentale?
http://publicacions.iec.cat/repository/pdf/00000084\00000043...

Lâcheté (donc savoir) ou audace (donc vérité) constituent d'une manière un VEL où se trouve la VÉRITÉ FORMELLE du sujet – sa liberté à quoi ...
www.philosophie-en-ligne.com/page188.htm

Etant donné que nous nous trouvons face à UN VEL EXCLUSIF, LA VÉRITÉ D'UNE PROPOSITION EXCLUT LA VÉRITÉ DE L'AUTRE PROPOSITION. ...
www.acte-psychanalytique.org/serafino.htm
Something went wrong...
1 hr
Reference:

refs relating to the text

Le vel ou l'impossible choix ou comment ne pas annoncer une mauvaise nouvelle

Résumé :

Faut-il dire la vérité ou ne faut-il pas dire la vérité ?

Voici la question qui surgit chaque fois qu'on parle du cancer.

En fait, plutôt que de "la vérité" c'est d'une bonne information qu'il s'agit. Dans ce souci, le médecin pourrait proposer au malade un choix qui n'en est pas un. C'est un faux choix, c'est un VEL.

Madame T. en témoigne.

Tant il est vrai que se vérifie, fois après fois, que l'enjeu n'est pas entre science et ignorance mais entre savoir et vérité du sujet. Ce qui doit nous guider dans ce qu'il est convenu avec Freud de désigner comme "le tact médical".

Réf. FILMED : 98 3605 008
http://www.canal-u.tv/themes/sciences_de_la_sante_et_du_spor...

The Author (is Iranian):
Entretien avec Alain Salimpour
12-03-2005
http://accompagnerlavie.net/index.php?Itemid=49&id=43&option...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : Well found! Explains everything...
10 mins
Something went wrong...
2 hrs
Reference:

Latin

see http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...

"I. conj. and adv. old imv. of volo prop., will, choose, take your choice; hence,
I. As disjunctive conjunction, to introduce an alternative as a matter of choice or preference, or as not affecting the principal assertion [...]"
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