Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
un vice de fond
English translation:
a procedural error
Added to glossary by
Julie Barber
Mar 27, 2016 16:44
8 yrs ago
10 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
Certified French Translator UK
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English
un vice de fond
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
court pleadings
Sixième moyen d’appel :
Encore une violation du principe du contradictoire alors que les juges arbitres ont balayé d’un revers de la main l’objection de A comme quoi ce n’était pas à elle d’assumer la responsabilité des faits allégués, mais à la filiale B qui bien que filiale avait juridiquement une totale indépendance fonctionnelle et décisionnelle.
En l’espèce il s’agit de la quantification du prétendu préjudice de C.
Le respect du contradictoire est un vice de forme et non pas **un vice de fond**, n’en déplaise à C.
Context: company A (also parent company to B) is appealing against an arbitration award to C
I found it in a dictionary as a "fundamental error" but couldn't quite under the sentence in the context. Thanks
Encore une violation du principe du contradictoire alors que les juges arbitres ont balayé d’un revers de la main l’objection de A comme quoi ce n’était pas à elle d’assumer la responsabilité des faits allégués, mais à la filiale B qui bien que filiale avait juridiquement une totale indépendance fonctionnelle et décisionnelle.
En l’espèce il s’agit de la quantification du prétendu préjudice de C.
Le respect du contradictoire est un vice de forme et non pas **un vice de fond**, n’en déplaise à C.
Context: company A (also parent company to B) is appealing against an arbitration award to C
I found it in a dictionary as a "fundamental error" but couldn't quite under the sentence in the context. Thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | a fundamental error |
chaplin
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| 4 +3 | a substantive defect |
Adrian MM. (X)
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References
| defects: substantive vs procedural |
Daryo
|
Proposed translations
+1
37 mins
Selected
a fundamental error
or a fundamental flaw
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Note added at 38 mins (2016-03-27 17:23:43 GMT)
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Les exceptions de nullité pour vice de forme ou de fond ...
www.cours-de-droit.net/les-exceptions-de-nullite-pour...
Translate this page
10 Oct 2015 - Un vice de forme est l'absence ou la présence erronée de mentions et d'éléments devant figurer sur un acte de procédure. Le défendeur doit ...
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Note added at 38 mins (2016-03-27 17:23:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Les exceptions de nullité pour vice de forme ou de fond ...
www.cours-de-droit.net/les-exceptions-de-nullite-pour...
Translate this page
10 Oct 2015 - Un vice de forme est l'absence ou la présence erronée de mentions et d'éléments devant figurer sur un acte de procédure. Le défendeur doit ...
Note from asker:
| Thanks. So it makes sense to say that "compliance with the adversarial principle is a technicality and not a fundamental flaw"? |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks"
+3
48 mins
a substantive defect
- namely one of substantive law vs. a vice de forme, namely a procedural flaw.
FHS Bridge's FR/EN gloassary: essential or substantive defect.
IATE's EU website entry making a hopeless mix-up of metaphors:
LAW [EP] Full entry
FR
procédure entachée d'un vice de fond
EN
fundamental error in procedure
FHS Bridge's FR/EN gloassary: essential or substantive defect.
IATE's EU website entry making a hopeless mix-up of metaphors:
LAW [EP] Full entry
FR
procédure entachée d'un vice de fond
EN
fundamental error in procedure
Note from asker:
| thanks for your help |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Peter LEGUIE
19 mins
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Merci and thanks!
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| agree |
Ben Gaia
: I like "a procedural error rather than a fundamental one". The difficult part is in translating "le respect" which, if the procedure has NOT been respected, could be rendered as "Lack of compliance". ...(to reply)
yes "disregard" is good
1 hr
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Thanks, but could be the wrong way round. It's fundamental/substantive vs. procedural in form. Also, Le respect du contradictoire > heeding = as you intimate: (non-)heeding = disregard of the adversarial principle.
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| agree |
Daryo
17 hrs
|
| neutral |
philgoddard
: Your reference says "fundamental error"!
18 hrs
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Take another look: IATE's EU website entry making a *hopeless mix-up of metaphors*
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Reference comments
18 hrs
Reference:
defects: substantive vs procedural
...
Defects in summary-judgment affidavits come in two flavors: substantive and procedural. Substantive objections can be raised for the first time on appeal. Procedural objections must be raised in the trial court or they are waived. One way to think about the difference between substantive and procedural objections is that procedural objections relate to the admissibility of the evidence and substantive objections relate to competence of the evidence. Another way to think about the difference is that procedural defects are those that could be corrected if pointed out, but substantive defects could not be. But courts of appeals have not always agreed about which defects are procedural and which are substantive.
...
http://texasappellatewatch.typepad.com/texas-appellate-watch...
Defects in summary-judgment affidavits come in two flavors: substantive and procedural. Substantive objections can be raised for the first time on appeal. Procedural objections must be raised in the trial court or they are waived. One way to think about the difference between substantive and procedural objections is that procedural objections relate to the admissibility of the evidence and substantive objections relate to competence of the evidence. Another way to think about the difference is that procedural defects are those that could be corrected if pointed out, but substantive defects could not be. But courts of appeals have not always agreed about which defects are procedural and which are substantive.
...
http://texasappellatewatch.typepad.com/texas-appellate-watch...
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