Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Jan 16, 2011 15:03
13 yrs ago
English term
his
English
Art/Literary
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
grammar
the baby begins to develop his
I hate the usage to resort to their as a gender-neuter term WHEN the subject IS a SINGULAR.
Example: Each one has their preferences.
In that case I would strongly prefer to resort to ITS. True it usually refers to anilmals and things, but it ALSO IS SINGULAR. Therefore it would become idiomatically correct to use its for a PC (politically correct) issue.
I must stress that I do not subscribe to PC, not because I'd like to see man prevail over woman or for whatever "natural" order you might want to consider (LGBTMW etc.).
My questions are: 1) "his" in today's English sounds non-PC, doesn't it?
2) substituiting "his" with "her" would just reverse the issue, right??
3) given the fact we might use his/her (cumbersome), would substituiting with "its" sound strange/offensive to an English-speaking person (mother tongue)?
What would you suggest? Pls refrain from "their"?
Thanks beforehand. Maurizio
I hate the usage to resort to their as a gender-neuter term WHEN the subject IS a SINGULAR.
Example: Each one has their preferences.
In that case I would strongly prefer to resort to ITS. True it usually refers to anilmals and things, but it ALSO IS SINGULAR. Therefore it would become idiomatically correct to use its for a PC (politically correct) issue.
I must stress that I do not subscribe to PC, not because I'd like to see man prevail over woman or for whatever "natural" order you might want to consider (LGBTMW etc.).
My questions are: 1) "his" in today's English sounds non-PC, doesn't it?
2) substituiting "his" with "her" would just reverse the issue, right??
3) given the fact we might use his/her (cumbersome), would substituiting with "its" sound strange/offensive to an English-speaking person (mother tongue)?
What would you suggest? Pls refrain from "their"?
Thanks beforehand. Maurizio
Responses
4 +4 | (leave it out) | Jennifer Levey |
3 +5 | babies begin to develop their | Armorel Young |
5 -1 | his | Paul Lambert |
References
Its | d_vachliot (X) |
Responses
+4
2 hrs
Selected
(leave it out)
In many (most?) cases, there is no need to use the possessive at all. Asker hasn't provided any complete examples so I'll make one up:
The baby begins to develop his/her/its/their front teeth at age 8 to 12 months.
means exactly the same as:
The baby begins to develop front teeth at age 8 to 12 months.
The baby begins to develop his/her/its/their front teeth at age 8 to 12 months.
means exactly the same as:
The baby begins to develop front teeth at age 8 to 12 months.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
B D Finch
: Another good solution.
1 hr
|
agree |
Arabic & More
11 hrs
|
agree |
Sonia Geerlings
: great idea as well
11 hrs
|
agree |
Pham Huu Phuoc
12 hrs
|
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks everybody for the useful discussion. Maurizio"
-1
4 mins
his
"his" in this context refers to male or female.
"To each his own" for example.
"Their" is wrong, as you note.
Some feministic claptrap will disagree with me. If you feel you need to deign to such ignorance, you can use "his or her", but that gets tedious.
"His" is fine. "Their" is bad.
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Note added at 17 mins (2011-01-16 15:20:28 GMT)
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I sure there will be several. Take care.
"To each his own" for example.
"Their" is wrong, as you note.
Some feministic claptrap will disagree with me. If you feel you need to deign to such ignorance, you can use "his or her", but that gets tedious.
"His" is fine. "Their" is bad.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2011-01-16 15:20:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I sure there will be several. Take care.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Paul, I'm waiting for more opinions... |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Travelin Ann
: As a female, I find "his" more PC than referring to a person as "it"
12 mins
|
Thanks (and I don't mean to sound confrontational) ;)
|
|
agree |
Sheila Wilson
: Agree entirely with Ann. "Its" is out. I don't like "his" to mean "the person's" in some situations (particularly for traditionally male jobs) but who can complain here? Not the baby, that's for sure!
21 mins
|
Thanks - and good point
|
|
disagree |
B D Finch
: It is not "feminist claptrap", UK central and local government bodies made policy decisions about this back in the 1980s. Avoid the problem by making it plural, or his/her.
4 hrs
|
Thank you
|
|
disagree |
Sonia Geerlings
: I have not seen "his" used in this way in printed media in Australia, except in old docs. I think it would stand out as odd or worse to most people. I have come across this usage though when localising US texts. Maybe its more acceptable in the US?
14 hrs
|
Thank you
|
|
disagree |
Armorel Young
: Agree with B D Finch - times move on (for that reason some baby books choose to use "her" throughout) and it's not "deigning to ignorance" to acknowledge that
17 hrs
|
Thank you. Yes, times do move on. It is the Hegelian dialectic at work (unfortunately)
|
+5
1 hr
babies begin to develop their
Assuming this is about child development in general and not one individual in particular, why not make it all plural and avoid the problem?
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Judith Hehir
: This is often my solution.
38 mins
|
agree |
B D Finch
2 hrs
|
agree |
Sarah Bessioud
3 hrs
|
agree |
Arabic & More
12 hrs
|
agree |
Sonia Geerlings
12 hrs
|
Reference comments
5 days
Reference:
Its
I would really appreciate it, if a native speaker could explain to me why "its" is grammatically incorrect.
"In English, words such as it and its genitive form its have been used to refer to human babies and pets, although with the passage of time this usage has come to be considered too impersonal in the case of babies, with many usage critics arguing that it demeans a conscious being to the status of a mere object. This use of "it" also got bad press when various regimes used it as a rhetorical device to dehumanize their enemies, implying that they were little more in authority than other animals. The word remains in common use however, and its use increases with how impersonal whatever the speaker is referring is to them. For example someone else's dog is often referred to as it, especially if the dog isn't known by the speaker. A person would rarely though, say it when referring to their own cat or dog. Examples:
* The baby had its first apple.
* They are taking their dog to the vet, as they said it looked ill.
"It" is still used for idiomatic phrases such as Is it a boy or a girl? Once the gender of the child has been established, the speaker or writer then switches to gender-specific pronouns.
Some people propose using "it" in a wider sense in all the situations where a gender-neutral pronoun might be desired. The advantage of using an existing word is that the language does not have to change as much. The disadvantage is the possibility of causing offense. This usage of it is currently very rare, and most commentators feel that it is unlikely to catch on."
"In English, words such as it and its genitive form its have been used to refer to human babies and pets, although with the passage of time this usage has come to be considered too impersonal in the case of babies, with many usage critics arguing that it demeans a conscious being to the status of a mere object. This use of "it" also got bad press when various regimes used it as a rhetorical device to dehumanize their enemies, implying that they were little more in authority than other animals. The word remains in common use however, and its use increases with how impersonal whatever the speaker is referring is to them. For example someone else's dog is often referred to as it, especially if the dog isn't known by the speaker. A person would rarely though, say it when referring to their own cat or dog. Examples:
* The baby had its first apple.
* They are taking their dog to the vet, as they said it looked ill.
"It" is still used for idiomatic phrases such as Is it a boy or a girl? Once the gender of the child has been established, the speaker or writer then switches to gender-specific pronouns.
Some people propose using "it" in a wider sense in all the situations where a gender-neutral pronoun might be desired. The advantage of using an existing word is that the language does not have to change as much. The disadvantage is the possibility of causing offense. This usage of it is currently very rare, and most commentators feel that it is unlikely to catch on."
Discussion
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/fetaldevelopment.html
or this one which is about the delivery:
http://pregnancy.familyeducation.com/delivery/after-delivery...
So it is not a question of grammatical accuracy at all.
Hope this helps, d
Take care.
If it is a general remark, I agree with Amourel and Paul. Using "their" + singular sounds weird here.
In German it is "Das Kind", so it's easy to use "es" for "it" as it is the grammatical gender. It gets more complicated with Das Madchen, the girl, which also ought to be "es"!