Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
English is not your "first" language
Spanish translation:
el inglés no es su idioma "materno"
Added to glossary by
Michael Powers (PhD)
Oct 13, 2007 13:21
17 yrs ago
40 viewers *
English term
United States
Honest, reliable, accurate, professional
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, English
English is not your "first" language
English to Spanish
Other
Education / Pedagogy
as in
"... students must demonstrate that English is their "first" language by providing........"
Do we say in Spanish PRIMERA LENGUA o SEGUNDA LENGUA? o IDIOMA? I generally use LENGUAJE NATIVO to refer to the first language, but what about the people that were born in Spanish speaking countries and were brought over to U.S. when they were 5 or 6 and they learn to speak English flawlessly just like a native speaker, then English is not their first language, no seria SU LENGUAJE NATIVO, isn't it..... PLEASE HELP! my brain is fried!!!!
"... students must demonstrate that English is their "first" language by providing........"
Do we say in Spanish PRIMERA LENGUA o SEGUNDA LENGUA? o IDIOMA? I generally use LENGUAJE NATIVO to refer to the first language, but what about the people that were born in Spanish speaking countries and were brought over to U.S. when they were 5 or 6 and they learn to speak English flawlessly just like a native speaker, then English is not their first language, no seria SU LENGUAJE NATIVO, isn't it..... PLEASE HELP! my brain is fried!!!!
Proposed translations
(Spanish)
Change log
Oct 13, 2007 18:30: Michael Powers (PhD) Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+9
2 mins
Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
US Court Cert. 1980 Ph.D. 1981
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
251
Selected
el inglés no es su idioma "materno"
Mike :)
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Note added at 33 mins (2007-10-13 13:55:07 GMT)
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Hace años, en 1976, tuve un profesor buenísimo, chileno, que se llamaba Eduardo Neale-Silva, en la Universidad de Wisconsin, Madison, quien enseñaba niveles posgrados de literatura (poesia) y el nivel más avanzado de "lengua".
Él decía, que normalmente en términos generales, se usa "idioma" - cuando se trata de un agrupamiento, se usa "lengua" - como, por ejemplo, las "lenguaas romances" or las "lenguas germánicas". Y cuando se trataba de una parte específica del idioma, se usaba "lenguaje" , como, por ejemplo, "lenguagje técnico".
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Note added at 37 mins (2007-10-13 13:58:57 GMT)
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Technically, etymologically, yes, "materno" comes from the mother; however, it is what is actually used for a "native" language.
As far as your comment that, "A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday." In this case, English is NOT their 'FIRST" language. The same thing happened with my children. Their first language was Spanish, and they didn't start talking English until they were five years old Their mother (my wife) was Peruvian. Since all their schooling was in English, English is their best language. However, this does NOT make it their first language. BEST or DOMINANT is not the same as FIRST. FIRST refers to chronologically order only.
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Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-13 14:01:48 GMT)
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At home we only spoke Spanish - even outside the home. However, when you compare this to the vocabulary and slang and formal language they learn in school, with their peers, among their friernds, in their social life, etc., other than pronunciation and fluency, all four of my children speak English better than Spanish (now they range from 16 to almost 25).
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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-10-13 18:29:25 GMT) Post-grading
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Octavio, I couldn't agree more with you. I find ProZ fascinating also, and I learn a lot from my colleagues here. Glad that I was able to put in my two cents, also.
Mike :)
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Note added at 33 mins (2007-10-13 13:55:07 GMT)
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Hace años, en 1976, tuve un profesor buenísimo, chileno, que se llamaba Eduardo Neale-Silva, en la Universidad de Wisconsin, Madison, quien enseñaba niveles posgrados de literatura (poesia) y el nivel más avanzado de "lengua".
Él decía, que normalmente en términos generales, se usa "idioma" - cuando se trata de un agrupamiento, se usa "lengua" - como, por ejemplo, las "lenguaas romances" or las "lenguas germánicas". Y cuando se trataba de una parte específica del idioma, se usaba "lenguaje" , como, por ejemplo, "lenguagje técnico".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2007-10-13 13:58:57 GMT)
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Technically, etymologically, yes, "materno" comes from the mother; however, it is what is actually used for a "native" language.
As far as your comment that, "A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday." In this case, English is NOT their 'FIRST" language. The same thing happened with my children. Their first language was Spanish, and they didn't start talking English until they were five years old Their mother (my wife) was Peruvian. Since all their schooling was in English, English is their best language. However, this does NOT make it their first language. BEST or DOMINANT is not the same as FIRST. FIRST refers to chronologically order only.
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Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-13 14:01:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
At home we only spoke Spanish - even outside the home. However, when you compare this to the vocabulary and slang and formal language they learn in school, with their peers, among their friernds, in their social life, etc., other than pronunciation and fluency, all four of my children speak English better than Spanish (now they range from 16 to almost 25).
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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-10-13 18:29:25 GMT) Post-grading
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Octavio, I couldn't agree more with you. I find ProZ fascinating also, and I learn a lot from my colleagues here. Glad that I was able to put in my two cents, also.
Mike :)
Note from asker:
| so if you say "materno" for "first", what do you say when people talk about "second" language as in English as a Second Language ESL? |
| Please help me understand here. Doesn't "materno" indicates that "was born with" or that comes from the "mother" (Im really confused now).. A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday. Just for my own sake, please. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Rafael Molina Pulgar
3 mins
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Gracias, Rafael - Mike :)
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| agree |
Marcelo Silveyra
: yep...it's easy to fall into the "nativo" mistake after seeing it so much on Proz, but "materno" is the way to go here
9 mins
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Gracias, Marcelo - de acuerdo, hay much abuso de los cognados "engañosos" - Mike :)
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| agree |
Alicia Orfalian
9 mins
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Gracias, Alicia - Mike :)
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| agree |
Cecilia Paris
: also lengua materna.
21 mins
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Gracias, Cecilia - Mike :)
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| agree |
Adelita Durán
1 hr
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Gracias, adeduran - Mike :)
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| agree |
Patricia Casanova Ochoa
: Sí, de acuerdo, lengua materna es lo correcto
1 hr
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Gracias, calipa - Mike :)
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| agree |
Salloz
: Prefiero lengua materna.
1 hr
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Gracias, Salloz - Mike :)
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| agree |
Yara Mendizabal
: I agree, only I don't think you need apostrophes
1 hr
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Thank you, the reason I used quotation marks is because they weer used in the original - otherwise I would not have used them. - Mike :)
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| agree |
Gándara
2 hrs
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Gracias, shootingstar - Mike :)
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| agree |
LiaBarros
2 hrs
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Gracias Lia, Mike :)
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| disagree |
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
: Perdón por el disagree. No estoy de acuerdo con "idioma materno". Siempre se habla de "lengua materna".
18 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Michael, I am glad I asked this question, because it created great conversation, and I learned a lot by following and reading the links. Your answer besides that it came first, it really gave the basis to continue with my translation.. I really appreciate your help.. I think that by combining the terms, it worked better with my document.. Thank you everybody, all your suggestions were great.. I am glad I belong to this ProZ network of professionals."
+1
2 hrs
Lorella Bernardo
Italy
Italy
Italy
UnLost in Translation
Native in: Italian (Variants: Sicilian, Roman / Romanesco, Standard-Italy, Tuscan / Toscano, Neapolitan) 
Works in: English to Italian, Spanish to Italian, French to Italian, and 7 more.
lengua materna/ si no eres nativo de inglés
I live with Spanish people, and I have always heard them saying "lengua materna" o "nativa".
"Native" or "mother" tongue can have more than one meaning... it can be referred to the language a person speak the best, to the language he speaks at home or, in case of people growing up in a bilingual background, the both languages they speak.
I enclose the link to wikipedia, hoping that it will help you.
"Native" or "mother" tongue can have more than one meaning... it can be referred to the language a person speak the best, to the language he speaks at home or, in case of people growing up in a bilingual background, the both languages they speak.
I enclose the link to wikipedia, hoping that it will help you.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
: Exacto. El matiz es que debió ser "lengua" o no "idioma". Yo no tengo un "idioma materno", sino que mi "lengua materna" es el español.
16 hrs
|
+1
4 hrs
Aïda Garcia Pons
United States
United States
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
United States
Translating Books since 2002
Native in: Catalan , Spanish
Works in: English to Catalan, Italian to Catalan, Spanish to Catalan, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
primera lengua
(...) que el inglés es su primera lengua.
El término "primera lengua" es perfectamente válido y mantiene la "ambiguedad" que conlleva "first language" en inglés. Si se refirieran a lengua materna, ¿no hubieran dicho "mother tongue"? Sí, pueden ser sinónimos, pero el hecho es que no queda 100% claro de que sea esto lo que el texto original queira decir... Es por esto que yo prefiero "primera lengua".
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:37:32 GMT)
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ej.: "Español seguirá como primera lengua de hispanos, según estudio
El uso del español, actualmente el idioma de preferencia del 74 por ciento de los 40 millones de hispanos de Estados Unidos, se mantendrá durante los próximos 20 años con sólo un leve declive, al 66 por ciento, según un nuevo estudio."
en http://www.terra.com/noticias/articulo/html/act198768.htm
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:40:33 GMT)
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2)
"Unidad en la lengua; El español será la primera lengua hablada por 400 millones de hispanohablantes"
en http://noticias.vanguardia.com.mx/d_i_367462_t_Unidad-en-la-...
¡Buen fin de semana!
El término "primera lengua" es perfectamente válido y mantiene la "ambiguedad" que conlleva "first language" en inglés. Si se refirieran a lengua materna, ¿no hubieran dicho "mother tongue"? Sí, pueden ser sinónimos, pero el hecho es que no queda 100% claro de que sea esto lo que el texto original queira decir... Es por esto que yo prefiero "primera lengua".
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:37:32 GMT)
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ej.: "Español seguirá como primera lengua de hispanos, según estudio
El uso del español, actualmente el idioma de preferencia del 74 por ciento de los 40 millones de hispanos de Estados Unidos, se mantendrá durante los próximos 20 años con sólo un leve declive, al 66 por ciento, según un nuevo estudio."
en http://www.terra.com/noticias/articulo/html/act198768.htm
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:40:33 GMT)
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2)
"Unidad en la lengua; El español será la primera lengua hablada por 400 millones de hispanohablantes"
en http://noticias.vanguardia.com.mx/d_i_367462_t_Unidad-en-la-...
¡Buen fin de semana!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
MarinaM
: Exacto. Primera lengua y lengua materna suelen no coincidir.
7 mins
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Estoy de acuerdo. Gracias Marina. Buen fin de semana :)
|
3 hrs
los estudiantes deben demostrar que dominan totalmente el inglés (la lengua inglesa)
Hi Octavio,
I don't know how much of this is actually up to you.
From the context you've provided it seems to me that the student's place of birth or which language he/she learnt first is absolutely irrelevant.
I would suggest (and perhaps even confer with the client) that the phrase is re-termed to better specify the requirement:
that students can read, speak, write and understand English AS IF it was their first language, i.e. in such a way that they will have no problem whatsoever to conduct their studies in English.
Thus, you might want to find a phrase that requires "full competence in the English language, accredited by such or such certifications/qualifications". Above is a suggestion to this end.
All the best,
Álvaro :O) :O)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 18:02:09 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure Octavio. In fact I was just in the process of adding a further note regarding 1st vs. 2nd language.
IMHO, your clients should understand what they are asking for, which is none other than full proficiency.
I hold a University of Cambridge Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults. While this is not the highest degree of English language qualification, you still don't get it by sending in the barcodes off three boxes of Cornflakes! I don't think the U. of C. would deny me a place on one of their courses because English isn't my 1st language... ;O) ;O)
I don't know how much of this is actually up to you.
From the context you've provided it seems to me that the student's place of birth or which language he/she learnt first is absolutely irrelevant.
I would suggest (and perhaps even confer with the client) that the phrase is re-termed to better specify the requirement:
that students can read, speak, write and understand English AS IF it was their first language, i.e. in such a way that they will have no problem whatsoever to conduct their studies in English.
Thus, you might want to find a phrase that requires "full competence in the English language, accredited by such or such certifications/qualifications". Above is a suggestion to this end.
All the best,
Álvaro :O) :O)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 18:02:09 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure Octavio. In fact I was just in the process of adding a further note regarding 1st vs. 2nd language.
IMHO, your clients should understand what they are asking for, which is none other than full proficiency.
I hold a University of Cambridge Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults. While this is not the highest degree of English language qualification, you still don't get it by sending in the barcodes off three boxes of Cornflakes! I don't think the U. of C. would deny me a place on one of their courses because English isn't my 1st language... ;O) ;O)
Note from asker:
| Alvaro, thank you for your great suggestion. I had to make a combo and it reads great!.. I added my changes as suggestions on a notes page that I attached to the document to help the client see different choices.. It always work well for me and they appreciate it. You are right a lot of interpreting has to be done, instead only translating. |
1 day 29 mins
Sara Rodriguez
United States
United States
Native in English
&
Spanish
Works in field
United States
Ready to work in English/Spanish/French
Native in: English (Variants: US, US South) , Spanish (Variant: US)
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Ingles no es su primer idioma.
Signifcacion que esta persona aprendio a hablar como infante con otro idioma y su conocimiento de conversacion or palabras escritas es mejor o se domina por otro idioma.
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Note added at 1 day34 mins (2007-10-14 13:56:07 GMT) Post-grading
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Definitivamente, la palabra que se debe usar aqui es "idioma." Pero para las personas que tienen Ingles come su primer idioma usan la palabra "lenguaje" mas frecuentemente. Se puede cosiderar parte de su "pequena acento."
Literal translation of the word "language" from English to Spanish.
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Note added at 1 day34 mins (2007-10-14 13:56:07 GMT) Post-grading
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Definitivamente, la palabra que se debe usar aqui es "idioma." Pero para las personas que tienen Ingles come su primer idioma usan la palabra "lenguaje" mas frecuentemente. Se puede cosiderar parte de su "pequena acento."
Literal translation of the word "language" from English to Spanish.
Example sentence:
Frances es su primer idioma. Yo hablo Ingles, pero prefiero mi primer idioma, Aleman.
Discussion
Espero haberte podido aclarar algo. Saludos
Lengua extranjera: la lengua que APRENDE (NO que adquiere, que es un proceso natural, sin in
Primera lengua es la lengua de la que tiene mayor dominio y que puede o no coincidir con la lengua materna.
Lengua e idioma son casi sinónimos.
Lengua materna, Octavio, es la principal que adquiere uno desde niño en casa. Desde luego, hay muchas situaciones particulares.
According to this "first language" is an ambiguous term. Therefore, what is it exactly you want to define, the language the student speaks best, or the first language he/she learnt?