Jun 13, 2014 14:47
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
China
Native in: Chinese (Variants: Traditional, Simplified)
Works in: English to Chinese, Chinese to English
subject to
English to Chinese
Law/Patents
Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright
copyright
Hello,
Could anyone tell me what "subject to" means in the following paragraph? What is "subject to the foregoing" used for? I have seen this paragraph in the "terms and conditions" section of several different websites (like here: http://www.stockportcountyshop.com/terms-conditions/ and here: http://www.tcmsports.com.au/terms-and-conditions). The only difference is where I put the square brackets.
You acknowledge and agree that all content included on this website including but not limited to website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons and the selection and arrangement thereof shall remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers and is protected by [UK] and international copyright laws. You are permitted to use this material only as expressly authorised by the applicable rights holder. Subject to the foregoing, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of [75 Media Ltd].
Thank you.
Could anyone tell me what "subject to" means in the following paragraph? What is "subject to the foregoing" used for? I have seen this paragraph in the "terms and conditions" section of several different websites (like here: http://www.stockportcountyshop.com/terms-conditions/ and here: http://www.tcmsports.com.au/terms-and-conditions). The only difference is where I put the square brackets.
You acknowledge and agree that all content included on this website including but not limited to website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons and the selection and arrangement thereof shall remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers and is protected by [UK] and international copyright laws. You are permitted to use this material only as expressly authorised by the applicable rights holder. Subject to the foregoing, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of [75 Media Ltd].
Thank you.
Proposed translations
(Chinese)
| 4 | 适用于以上规定 |
jarv95888
|
| 5 | 有鑒於此； 根據前述(事實)； 因此。 |
jyuan_us
|
| 4 | 以 XXX 为条件 |
Daniel Newham
|
| 3 | 在。。。范围内/前提下 |
tanglsus
|
References
| 在符合上文规定的条件下 |
Shang
|
Proposed translations
53 mins
Selected
适用于以上规定
除非另有指定，页眉、商标和按钮图标等，均视为服务标记、商标及/或[75 Media Ltd]徽标，并适用于以上规定。
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-06-13 16:35:21 GMT)
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The forgoing refers to the rules that “all content included on this website including but not limited to website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons and the selection and arrangement thereof shall remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers and is protected by [UK] and international copyright laws."
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-13 17:13:00 GMT)
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Perhaps, "条款“would be better than"规定."
（...并适用于上述条款。）
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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-06-14 00:24:29 GMT)
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先前的条款("foregoing")已经有界定：所有的websitedesign, text, GRAPHICS...LOGOS, Button ICONS..."is protected by [UK] and international copyright laws."
而这里指出“页眉、商标和按钮图标等”应被视为先前所提到的“GRAPHICS。。。LOGOS， BUTTON ICONS”， 因此，也适用于上述条款：“受UK及国际版权法保护。”
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Note added at 12 hrs (2014-06-14 03:15:58 GMT)
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作者先前讲到：所有的websitedesign, text, GRAPHICS...LOGOS, Button ICONS， 都受UK及国际版权法保护， 亦即：若非经得同意不能擅用。
在另一方面，其网页里所刊登的页眉、商标和按钮图标等（也许是属于客户商的）应视同服务标记、商标及/或徽标（Logos），因此也适用于上述的条款，即同样受UK及国际版权法保护，若非经得同意不能擅用。
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Note added at 1 day10 hrs (2014-06-15 01:25:55 GMT)
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我们都是提供意见，但是只有你懂得上下文的连贯内容，也只有你最能判断该如何取决措辞。不过，我仍然认为 subject to 在这里跟前文连接不是因果关系,而是平行关系。
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Note added at 1 day14 hrs (2014-06-15 05:38:53 GMT)
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I think the reason why it is there is the fact that there is a different situation involved: "unless indicated otherwise."
In other words, those elements can be subject to the copyright protection, or can be otherwise allowed is use under different situations.
Note from asker:
| 你好。能告诉我为什么是”适用于以上规定“的意思吗？我好像没看到前文有交代什么”规定“。 |
| 我的意思就是，为什么要加上subject to the foregoing？如果原句中没有这个成分，对原本要表达的意思有什么影响？因为我看不出“the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of [75 Media Ltd]”和“all content included on this website including but not limited to website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons and the selection and arrangement thereof shall remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers and is protected by [UK] and international copyright laws”有什么逻辑关系。如果一个商标属于这家公司的版权，那就是属于，就算要附带条件（或条款或规定），也得是相关的吧，但我看不出前文（所谓的the foregoing）和末句有什么相关。具体到你说的，“适用于上述条款”，又怎么个适用法呢？就像我说：“江苏某块地归甲公司所有。这块地仅可由甲公司用来办公，并适用于以上规定。”这个“适用于以上规定”插在这里干嘛的呢？删掉它对原文意思丝毫没影响。 |
| 我想说明下，原问题中例句remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers应该是那个网站搞错了，我认为应该是remain at all times vested in 75 Media Ltd or its content suppliers。我看了好几个网站，都是remain at all times vested in [XYZ company] or its content suppliers这种格式。比如这里：http://www.tcmsports.com.au/terms-and-conditions |
| 看了你的解释，我明白些了。不过，我始终觉得subject to the foregoing在这里是多此一举。首句已经说明：网站所有内容都属于75 Media Ltd或其内容提供商所有，受英国及国际版权法保护。既然这样，网站上属于75 Media Ltd 服务标记、商标及/或徽标的那些page header、custom graphic 和 button icon 自然也受英国及国际版权法保护，这是不言而喻的。我猜后面之所以要交代the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of 75 Media Ltd 这部分，可能是要说明：这类内容是75 Media Ltd这家公司所有，而非前文提到的its its content suppliers 所有。这样一看，把“Subject to the foregoing”替换为“In particular”似乎更有逻辑，不会让人丈二和尚摸不着头脑。 |
| 不要误会哈，我一直相信这里subject to不可能是因果关系。只不过是不是平行关系，我不肯定。我是不太认可原文作者的写法的，因为后面交代的东西受不受版权法保护显而易见。我倾向认为末句（不包含subject to the foregoing这部分）是在首句基础上作进一步说明，有那么点递进关系。:) |
| 我认为我的问题中将subject to the foregoing译为“适用于上述条款”或者“受上述条款规限”可以。只不过经你一解释，我觉得subject to the foregoing在这里实在多余。 |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you"
9 mins
Daniel Newham
Native in English
Chinese (simplified) English (British)
Native in: English 
Works in: Chinese to English, English to Chinese
以 XXX 为条件
2 dependent or conditional upon: the proposed merger is subject to the approval of the shareholders.
以 什么什么 为条件
以 什么什么 为条件
Example sentence:
subject to the foregoing 以上述为前提条件
Note from asker:
| Hi. If a page header is vested in XYZ company, then it is. That doesn't require any "precondition", does it? I don't think it can be translated to "以...为前提条件" in this case, though I know many translators translate this phrase invariably in that way. |
11 mins
在。。。范围内/前提下
在上述范围内/前提下
供参考
供参考
Note from asker:
| Hi. If a page header is vested in XYZ company, then it is. That doesn't require any "precondition", does it? I don't think it can be translated to "以...为前提条件" in this case, though I know many translators translate this phrase invariably in that way. |
1 day 10 hrs
有鑒於此； 根據前述(事實)； 因此。
有鑒於此；
根據前述(事實)；
因此。
這三種說法應該都能準確表達原文的意思。
根據前述(事實)；
因此。
這三種說法應該都能準確表達原文的意思。
Note from asker:
| 我同意jarv95888先前说过的，这里不是因此或者根据的意思，因为不难看出前两句和末句并非一因一果。末句应该是在首句基础上作进一步说明。 |
Reference comments
54 mins
Reference:
在符合上文规定的条件下
Note from asker:
| 你发的这条链接我很早就看到过。subject to概括起来也无非就是那么几项意思。但是在我问的这个例子中，我套哪个意思似乎都对不上。你说“上文规定”，可是一个商标如果属于公司的版权，为什么还要符合“上文规定”？属于就属于，不属于就不属于，而且，上文似乎也没交代什么相关的“规定”。 |
Discussion
The following link might be of some help.
http://help-zh-cn.nike.com/app/answers/detail/article/terms/...
知识产权
本平台（除用户生成内容外）全部知识产权为耐克或其许可人所有，包括受版权、商标权或专利权法保护的物质。全部商标、服务商标和商品名称（例如：耐克的名称和其斜勾设计）为耐克所有、注册和/或许可的。本平台全部内容（除用户生成内容外），包括但不限于文字、软件、脚本、代码、设计、图标、图片、声音、音乐、视频、应用、互动功能和所有其他内容（以下简称“内容”）为中华人民共和国和其他国家著作权法下的汇编作品，且为耐克的专有财产；保留所有权利。
顺便说下，我下面的讨论有修改过。
(By the way, my humble opinion is that in legal document or any formal document, there is no need to go over the contents involved in the context because the syntactic structure as well as the inter-references within the text is enough to construe it semantically. Any references external to the context may run the risks of creative construing, in which instances the legal consideration may be too wide as to allow equivocal understanding. That's why such transitional phrases as what we see here, such as "subject to the foregoing," "unless otherwise indicated," "in the event of," and so forth function to closely relate ideas together.
I don't mean that external references are redundant. They are instrumental to our understanding of the contents, but as far as translation is concerned, sticking to the text sometimes helps because intra-contextual structure and relation may prevail in legal documents.
Again, this is just some of my opinions and is open to inprovement and criticism.)
另外，我现在觉得unless indicated otherwise是指：
unless it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are not the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, 【rather, they are other kinds of intellectual properties (probably copyrights) of the website operator】.
Shirley认为：
unless it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are not the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, 【and that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the content providers or a third party】.
jarv95888认为：
unless it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are not the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, 【and that they can be used by others under some particular situations without being authorized】.
The Terms of Use of your cited websites mention that the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are the trademarks, service marks and logos of the website operator ONLY. That is why they use "unless indicated otherwise" to state that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, UNLESS it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are NOT the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, and that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the content providers or a third party. That is the main purpose of using "unless otherwise indicated" here.
To put it in a simple way, if a sentence says "The book is not to be sold unless it is otherwise indicated," it means it is not to be sold unless someone or something provides alternatives saying that it can be sold in this way or that way in particular.
To go back to the original sentence, custom graphics and button icons are considered as service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of 75 Media Ltd, unless someone or something says they are not and that they can be used by others under some particular situations without being authorized.
See: http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/definitions.jsp
It is usually the case that the rights holder (e.g. the website operator) wants to maximize their rights and interests.
You may also have recognized that all the contents of this website is deemed the copyrights of the website operator or the content providers, while ONLY the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are deemed the trademarks, service marks and/or logos of the website operator or the content providers.
能否讲下你觉得 unless indicated otherwise 究竟是 otherwise indicate what 吗?
还有，你那样改写句子，是说你同意jarv95888对subject to（在本问题中）的理解，对吗？
The page headers, custom graphics and button icons, the use of which is subject to express authorisation by the applicable rights holder, are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or logo’s of 75 Media Ltd.
According to the context, it can inferred that 75 Media Ltd is applicable rights holder mentioned in the first passage of this section. The page headers, custom graphics and button icons are an integral part of the abovementioned all contents included on this website.
(I think this also serves as an answer to Eureka's message,)
不过我还是有疑问，不是关于subject to，而是关于整个末句：既然首句已交代网站所有内容都属于75 media或其content suppliers所有，那么网站上的 page header、custom graphic 和 button icon自然要么是 75 media 所有，要么是其 content suppliers 所有，不会有其他方。末句内容似乎不言自明。作者特地加上末句，有什么用意？
See: http://www.bargaaba.com/terms.php
In general, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons as used in most Terms of Use may be expressly deemed the trademarks, service marks and logos of BOTH the website operator and the content providers.
However, the Terms of Use of your cited websites have been drafted "too aggressively" to include the page headers, custom graphics and button icons as the trademarks, service marks and logos of the website operator ONLY. That is why they use "unless indicated otherwise" to state that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, UNLESS it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the content providers concerned. That is the main purpose of using "unless otherwise indicated" here.
See: http://www.bargaaba.com/terms.php
In general, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons as used in most Terms of Use will expressly mention that BOTH the website operator and the content providers may be deemed the owners of the trademarks, service marks and logos of such contents.
However, the Terms of Use of your cited websites have been drafted "too aggressively" to include the page headers, custom graphics and button icons as the trademarks, service marks and logos of the website operator. That is why they use "unless indicated otherwise" to state that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the website operator, UNLESS it is otherwise expressly mentioned that such contents are the trademarks, service marks or logos of the content providers. That is the main purpose of using "unless otherwise indicated" here.
unless indicated otherwise
在另一方面，其网页里所刊登的页眉、商标和按钮图标等（也许是属于客户商的）应视同服务标记、商标及/或徽标（Logos），因此也适用于上述的条款，即同样受UK及国际版权法保护，若非经得同意不能擅用。”
另外，译文中“适用于上述条款”跟英文不一样，不是在句首，而是在句末。请看jarv95888最初的翻译（我调整了公司名位置）：
“除非另有指定，页眉、商标和按钮图标等，均视为[75 Media Ltd]的服务标记、商标及/或徽标，并适用于以上规定。”
我这也算是一并回答Shirley Lao。欢迎讨论。
You acknowledge and agree that all content included on this website including but not limited to website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons and the selection and arrangement thereof shall remain at all times vested in [XYZ Company] or its content suppliers and is protected by [some country’s] and international copyright laws. You are permitted to use this material only as expressly authorised by the applicable rights holder. Subject to the foregoing, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons are (unless indicated otherwise) service marks, trademarks, and/or [trade dress] of [XYZ Company].
我据此判断原问题中“shall remain at all times in the website or its content suppliers”应是“shall remain at all times vested in 75 Media Ltd or its content suppliers”。如果是这样，subject to the foregoing似乎就不能理解为“因此”，因为你怎么肯定the page headers, custom graphics and button icons就一定是75 Media Ltd这家公司的service marks, trademarks, and/or logo？就没有可能是its content suppliers的吗？
另外，“适用于上述条款”和“因此”意思不一样。我当时也不明白“适用于上述条款”是怎么个适用法，后来jarv95888给我解释了，如下：
[空间有限，请看我下条讨论]
另一例子的“Subject to the foregoing provision, where the assured has over-insured by double insurance, a proportionate part of the several premiums is returnable.” 用法跟这里提问的用法并不相同，它更适用于Ivan 和Shirley所建议的"根据 … 规定"。不过，例子里的中译似乎与原文有很大的出路。
All the content under this website is copyrighted and proprietary (i.e. owned by the respective content supplier). According to the aforementioned, the page headers, custom graphics and button icons shall be deemed the service marks, trademarks, and/or logo(s) of 75 Media Ltd. (which is the operator of this website but may not necessarily be the content supplier concerned), unless otherwise stated.
這里应是指页眉、商标和按钮图标等，均视为服务标记、商标及/或[75 Media Ltd]徽标，故而跟上文所述website design, text, graphics, audio clips, visual clips, logos, button icons……一樣受UK及国际版权法保护。
See: http://www.legaltranz.com/archives/1133