Jul 18 21:05
3 mos ago
68 viewers *
German term

DENKE SIE WEITER

German to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters from an art postcard
From an art postcard
DIESE KARTE TEILT IHNEN MEINE GEDANKEN MIT
DENKE SIE WEITER

I'm struggling with the second part here. Is the subject ich?

Discussion

Johannes Yes, I apologize! The link does not open, I realized this only after posting it; that's why I suggested in my reference comment to google the title of the article "The Human Letter: Mail Art...". It will lead you straight to the quoted text.
Johannes Gleim Jul 21:
@ Johanna http://https//fillip.ca/content/the-human-letter not found in the internet
But found other links to this card.
Johannes Gleim Jul 21:
Tegan I agree with Johanna's interpretation, but I wonder whether this card really originates from the former GDR or one of today's dictatorships. Please let us know from which country, when and why this card was sent. Any further information can shed light on the background.
Incidentally, this correlates well with my thoughts on the consequences.
subtext? Based on what I could find about Rehfeldt online, the graphic works and mail art he sent to his friends usually dealt with the problems of living in a surveillance state (the STASI would regularly intercept correspondence) and claimed creative freedom. Rehfeldt, playing with his readers, took to writing “coded” messages. So each of his Mail Art cards seems to have a subtext:
DIESE KARTE TEILT IHNEN MEINE GEDANKEN MIT-DENKE SIE WEITER
Subtext: Mit dieser Karte schick ich dir meine Gedanken (Vorstellungen, Ideen) – aber denk scharf nach, was ich wirklich sagen will!
With this card I am sending you my thoughts (ideas) - but please think carefully and consider what I’m really trying to say
Klartext : Mit dieser Karte sage ich gar nichts, schon gar nicht meine Gedanken. Wenn du ein bisschen nachdenkst, weißt du auch welche!
Plain English: I'm not divulging anything with this card, and certainly not my thoughts. You’ll know what I mean if you give it a little thought.
Text für die STASI : Ihr denkt, dass ich euch mit dieser Karte meine Gedanken offenbare. Haha, falsch gedacht.
Text intended for the STASI: You think I'm revealing my thoughts to you with this c
Lirka Jul 20:
Agree with Cilian on this one. I, too, read it as the imperative.
Cilian O'Tuama Jul 20:
DENKE SIE WEITER need not be wrong. No need to assume a mistake/typo...

It could be the imperative, e.g. person A inviting (Duzfreund) person B to feel free to think the thoughts further.

As I stated elsewhere, it would be clearer if the IHNEN was instead DIR.
Johannes Gleim Jul 20:
@ Tegan It is clear that the German it should be "DENKEN SIE WEITER", or in the second person singular "DENK(E) WEITER!"
As the card communicates the sender's thoughts, the second sentence should include them. I'm thinking of the consequences of the action. Unfortunately, it is not clear from the context whether this refers to the death of a friend or relative or to any kind of endeavour.
Björn Vrooman Jul 19:
@Phil "As I see it, the first line is addressed to lots of readers..."
> While I also agree about denke + du, I don't actually agree with this bit.

One of Rehfeldt's other (relatively) well known quotes is, "Denken Sie jetzt bitte nicht an mich." Most of the time, it's written with a capital S; additionally, there seems to be a second version of the sentence Tegan is asking about:
"Ich schicke Ihnen einen Gedanken. Bitte denken Sie ihn weiter.“
https://www.weltkunst.de/kunstwissen/2016/06/typewritings-bi...

I think he switches between the polite and colloquial forms of "you" in this context, as the imperative feels stronger if you use, say, a more direct approach.

To all of you, enjoy your weekend and don't get sunburnt!
Emmanuella Jul 19:
Phil,
Grammatically speaking, the problem ( du/sie) doesn't exist in English.
It would be weird in French.
philgoddard Jul 19:
Thanks, Susan I also agree with your comment that 'think them further' is not colloquial. But neither is 'denke sie weiter' - the whole point is that they're playing with language.

And Emmanuella, if you have another look at your second reference, you'll see it supports what I said.
Susan Starling Jul 19:
At first I thought this was an obvious typo too. But if you read the whole thing in context it becomes clear. Literally it would be something like "This card shares my thoughts / Keep thinking them" "Denke" is 2nd person imperative here. So Phil is correct about the second line being addressed to one reader (as the imperative with "du").
philgoddard Jul 19:
As I see it, the first line is addressed to lots of readers, and the second to one person. There's no contradiction in that.
Michele Fauble Jul 19:
But ‘du’ after using ‘Ihnen’?
philgoddard Jul 19:
Denke is the imperative with 'du'.
Simon Vigneault Jul 19:
If you haven't come across it yet, a good resource for this is the LEO dictionary. For each word, to the left of the play icon for listening to the pronunciation, there is an icon like an open book that takes you to a grammar page with all the forms, like imperative (scroll down in the grammar page for that). Also, LEO often has a busy discussion section for a word or phrase. https://dict.leo.org/german-english/denken
Tegan Raleigh (asker) Jul 18:
Is it common practice to leave the "n" off the imperative? That's what is tripping me up. here.
philgoddard Jul 18:
I think the idea is 'build on these thoughts and pass them on,' but it needs to be more concise. This appears to be a one-off postcard intended as a work of art, rather than a card with a picture reproduced on it.
Emmanuella Jul 18:
Imperativ: DENKE [N] SIE WEITER !

Proposed translations

+5
5 mins
Selected

(GO) THINK THEM FURTHER

"SIE" refers to the "GEDANKEN" from the sentence above here.
THIS CARD IS SHOWING YOU MY THOUGHTS
(GO) THINK THEM (=the thoughts) FURTHER

A bit of a loose translation, but I think this is fine for a postcard.
Peer comment(s):

neutral liz askew : I don't understand the English....think about it/them some more?
0 min
Yes, think about the thoughts (feminin plural in German = sie) a bit to embellish them more... Basically you are writing a card to a friend with some of your ideas/thoughts/experiences and the recipient can add their own thoughts
agree Glenn Brigaldino : better, to build on the thoughts already provided on the card
2 hrs
agree philgoddard : This is good. The German is offbeat, and the English needs to be too.
8 hrs
agree Darin Fitzpatrick
13 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : This doesn't really tie up with the first line and is not good English imo
13 hrs
neutral Susan Starling : The meaning/explanation is correct but this isn't very colloquial English.
16 hrs
agree Steve Robbie : It's an exercise in sloganeering, so the unorthodox English is ideal.
18 hrs
agree Cilian O'Tuama : Or pursue/develop/explore etc. As in "feel free to express your thoughts about my thoughts?". I also reckon this is what's meant, but DIR instead of IHNEN in the first bit might make it clearer.
2 days 56 mins
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
15 mins

Give them more thought

This is how I would express it.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2024-07-19 03:56:33 GMT)
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Or more concisely, maybe just “think about them”/ “consider them”.
Peer comment(s):

agree Kim Metzger
1 day 18 hrs
thanks
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : Almost sounds like a complaint/admonition, to me.
2 days 1 hr
thanks - definitely can be in the right context.
Something went wrong...
+2
13 hrs

Keep them in mind

Idiomatic with first line
Peer comment(s):

agree Susan Starling
3 hrs
thanks
agree writeaway : Imo, the notion of continued thought/continuation is important
3 hrs
Thanks
neutral Steve Robbie : I find this too dull and static. "Keep my thoughts in mind" means "remember them", but the German enjoins us to embrace them and actively develop them // See above. I've already endorsed the suggestion I agree with
4 hrs
Really? So how would you express that? //can't see how "go think them further" means "embrace them and actively develop them", but however...
neutral Michele Fauble : Agree with Steve’s point.
5 hrs
agree Kim Metzger
1 day 2 hrs
disagree Cilian O'Tuama : Sorry, but it sounds more like a warning than an invitation, which is how I'd read it.
1 day 11 hrs
The "warning" possibility is only one among others; invitation is just as possible
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 40 mins

ponder over them

another option to choose from
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans : I like this option
2 days 19 hrs
Thanks, Allegro! In light of what Johanna revealed, I think this may be a good choice (the best of my proposals at least).
Something went wrong...
1 day 43 mins

SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Another idea :=)
Something went wrong...
1 day 20 hrs

Keep brainstorming!

Another idea, now I rest my case. :=)
Something went wrong...
1 day 13 hrs

THINK ABOUT THE OUTCOME or KEEP THE OUTCOME IN MIND

[Method] Don't think about the outcome, focus on what you set out to do in that very moment
https://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/hif5xf/meth...

"Outcome Thinking" means to visualize your final outcome and work towards that. This is as opposed to the trap of constantly working on daily tasks without periodically taking the time to re-align yourself with your longer-term goals and intentions.
https://forum.gettingthingsdone.com/threads/what-is-outcome-...

A deliberate decision to keep our desired outcomes in mind when we are doing things, especially complex and subtle things, keeps us grounded and tends to lead for efficient interventions rather than irrelevant or self-indulgent activities.
https://mechanicsofwhy.com/thinking-strategies/outcome-think...

Outcome Thinking is a mindset:
• It is a focus on what changes or impact your programs are having in the clients or community you serve.
• It links your program activities to the end result you seek.
• It is a prerequisite for taking an honest look at whether your program is having an impact.
https://crenyc.org/resources/introduction-to-outcome-thinkin...

Vorschlag: "THINK ABOUT THE OUTCOME", oder "KEEP THE OUTCOME IN MIND"
Man kann dies auch zu "keep thinking" verkürzen, wenn der Sinn klar ist.

Anmerkung: Für "Folgen" sind noch weitere Begriffe denkbar, z.B. CONSEQUENCES, IMPACT.

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Note added at 2 Tage 13 Stunden (2024-07-21 10:25:42 GMT)
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I searched for the text and found about 12 links to it, including the complete illustration and comments on the persecution of "subversive" artists in the GDR, for which I quote below:

"Diese Karte teilt Ihnen meine Gedanken mit, denke sie weiter": Robert Rehfeldt gehörte zu den bekanntesten Vertretern der Mail-Art in der DDR.
https://www.kultur-mv.de/kunst-kultur/bildende-kunst/hinter-...

Humorvoll und verfolgt: Subversive Postkartenkunst in der DDR
[vollständige Abbildung der Karte]
Robert Rehfeldt, Diese Karte teilt Ihnen meine Gedanken mit. Denken Sie weiter, 1979, Stempel, Offset, 10,6x 14,8 cm; © VG Bild-Kunst Bonn 2015
Sich subversiv gegen die Politik in der DDR zu wenden konnte eine Freiheitsstrafe nach sich ziehen. Keinem Künstler wurde das so bewusst gemacht wie Jürgen Gottschalk aus Dresden. Der Autodidakt sprang auf den Zug der „Mail Art“ und verbreitete so auch politische Fragestellungen. Die Stasi zerstörte nach und nach sein Leben.
[Anschließend wird über Gottschalk berichtet, der ebenso von der Stasi überwacht wurde]
Dazu die Schweriner Galerie: „Mit subversivem Humor demonstrieren die Werke, was Kunst in der Diktatur leistete. Zudem entwickelten die Künstler unkonventionelle Drucktechniken und Strategien, um mit den einengenden gesellschaftlichen Umständen kreativ umzugehen. Kunst und inoffizielle Ausstellungsorte wurden zu einer alternativen Öffentlichkeit. Darüber hinaus intervenierten Künstler mit Performances oder Land Art-Aktionen gegen den offiziellen Formenkanon der DDR. Mecklenburg empfahl sich für diese experimentellen Formen als Rückzugsgebiet.“
https://artefactae.wordpress.com/2016/01/

Die "Gedenk Karte Rehfeldt"3 mit der weiteren Aufschrift „Diese Karte teilt Ihnen meine Gedanken mit. Denke sie weiter“ ist auf den verbalen Inhalt reduziert. Das Bildobjekt ist die schwarze Schrift auf hellem, fast weißem Papieruntergrund im Postkartenformat. Die Postkarte als Medium der Kommunikation von bildlichen Informationen wird in diesem Fall Trägerin eines Konzeptes, dem künstlerische Ideen oder Gedanken zugrunde liegen. Rehfeldt bedient sich einer Art Metasprache, um das eigentliche Konzept dieser Kunst zu vermitteln. Er verschickt einen Gedanken, materialisiert durch schwarze Schrift, per Post und fordert die Empfänger auf, diesen weiter zu denken.
https://journals.openedition.org/trajectoires/201#ftn3

In der Ausstellung sind Postkarten zu sehen, auf welche die Aufforderung „Sei Kunst im Getriebe“ gestempelt ist, oder eine „Gedenkkarte“, auf der es heißt: "Diese Karte teilt Ihnen meine Gedanken mit … Denken Sie weiter." Solche Karten verschickte Rehfeldt nicht nur international an Künstlerfreunde, sondern auch an Politfunktionäre in der DDR.
:
Ein Künstler, der weltweit gestempelte und bedruckte Postsachen mit solchen Sprüchen versendete und der vor allem von Künstlern aus Westeuropa, den USA und Lateinamerika Arbeiten zugesendet bekam – in einem Land, in dem jeder Fotokopierer registriert werden musste und der Erhalt von ausländischen Druckerzeugnissen verboten war, hätte das eigentlich für Probleme sorgen müssen. Rehfeldt wurde zwar von der Stasi beobachtet, erhielt aber trotzdem wegen seiner künstlerischen Praxis sogar eine offizielle Erlaubnis, Drucksachen aus dem Westen zu beziehen.
https://taz.de/!5711619/
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : Where does the ST say anything about outcome? // Really?
4 hrs
This is implied in the phrase.
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Reference comments

20 hrs
Reference:

Robert Rehfeldt (mail art creator)

"Eugen Blume observed that the East German STASI studied communiqués sent out by Robert Rehfeldt, with great scrupulousness and seriousness. Rehfeldt, playing with those hidden readers, would write on his stamped cards: “do not think about me,” “I thought about something that you completely did not think about when I was thinking about it,” “I am sending you an idea—please keep thinking.” Piotrowski, In the Shadow of Yalta, 269."

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Note added at 21 hrs (2024-07-19 18:48:34 GMT)
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https://artefactae.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/humorvoll-und-ve...

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Note added at 22 hrs (2024-07-19 19:15:30 GMT)
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My second link does not seem to open, so you can google "The Human Letter: Mail Art Exchanges between East Berlin and Northeast Brazil"
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Björn Vrooman : Don't need to attach a picture of the card anymore; you already did with your second link. Cf.: https://journals.openedition.org/trajectoires/201?lang=de As for Tegan's Q, leaving off the -n isn't common practice. But it's art, so...
1 hr
agree seehand
18 hrs
agree AllegroTrans : You seem to have found it but this clearly says "DENKE" and not "DENKEN" per Johannes
21 hrs
agree writeaway
1 day 5 hrs
agree ibz
1 day 17 hrs
agree Kim Metzger : https://fillip.ca/content/the-human-letter
2 days 2 hrs
thank you!
Something went wrong...
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