Oct 10, 2003 13:17
20 yrs ago
18 viewers *
English term
Surname of married women
Non-PRO
English
Art/Literary
1. I see that some women from western countries after they married choose to keep her maiden name and have it precede her husband's surname. Is this practice common?
2. As examples I can think of Courtney Cox and Justine Henin. Please give me a few more examples from famous people. Many thanks
2. As examples I can think of Courtney Cox and Justine Henin. Please give me a few more examples from famous people. Many thanks
Responses
4 +9 | German practice |
Edith Kelly
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4 +5 | Depends largely on law and common practice |
vixen
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3 +4 | double names becoming more common |
Michele Johnson
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4 +2 | slightly different in the UK |
Armorel Young
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4 +2 | depends also on the reasons |
achisholm
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4 +1 | in Belgium women Do NOT change their names on marriage |
CMJ_Trans (X)
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4 +1 | Famous people in France... |
ntouzet (X)
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5 | One more for Germany |
Steffen Pollex (X)
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5 | Asker, you do not mention hyphenation at all. |
Refugio
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4 +1 | In Denmark |
pcovs
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4 | In Portugal |
ana_brum
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4 | as for Italy |
verbis
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Responses
+9
6 mins
Selected
German practice
In Germany, this is quite common:
Sue Miller marries Joe Soap and becomes
Sue Soap-Miller or also Sue Miller-Soap
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Note added at 2003-10-10 13:31:40 (GMT)
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We had that wonderful Minister of Justice called
Sabine Leutheuser-Schnarrenberg , oi weh.
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Note added at 2003-10-10 15:39:20 (GMT)
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An old joke.
There was a famous opera singer by the name of Erna Sack. So why did she not marry the former Egyptian President Nasser? Because she would then be called Erna Nasser-Sack (wet bag).
Sue Miller marries Joe Soap and becomes
Sue Soap-Miller or also Sue Miller-Soap
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Note added at 2003-10-10 13:31:40 (GMT)
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We had that wonderful Minister of Justice called
Sabine Leutheuser-Schnarrenberg , oi weh.
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Note added at 2003-10-10 15:39:20 (GMT)
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An old joke.
There was a famous opera singer by the name of Erna Sack. So why did she not marry the former Egyptian President Nasser? Because she would then be called Erna Nasser-Sack (wet bag).
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Graded automatically based on peer agreement."
+5
16 mins
Depends largely on law and common practice
Even in countries where women are allowed by law to keep their maiden name after marriage, many women tend to adopt their husband's name after they marry.
When they use both names, the husband's name usually precedes the maiden name. The order maiden name - husband's name appears to be most frequently used by the rich and famous.
The reference below explains about the use of women's surnames in the European community.
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Note added at 2003-10-10 15:22:15 (GMT)
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In reply to Sarah\'s comment, I\'d like to add the following:
In the Netherlands, too, official bodies always register and address a woman by her maiden name, often with the addition of \"e.v. X\" or \"echtgenote van\" (wife of X). This also goes for a woman\'s passport.
In the Netherlands, most women use either their husband\'s name or their husband\'s name plus their own maiden name (always hyphenated). During my first marriage, I adopted my husband\'s name. Sometimes, especially on written forms, I used the hyphenated combination.
Now that I have remarried, I use only my maiden name.
When they use both names, the husband's name usually precedes the maiden name. The order maiden name - husband's name appears to be most frequently used by the rich and famous.
The reference below explains about the use of women's surnames in the European community.
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Note added at 2003-10-10 15:22:15 (GMT)
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In reply to Sarah\'s comment, I\'d like to add the following:
In the Netherlands, too, official bodies always register and address a woman by her maiden name, often with the addition of \"e.v. X\" or \"echtgenote van\" (wife of X). This also goes for a woman\'s passport.
In the Netherlands, most women use either their husband\'s name or their husband\'s name plus their own maiden name (always hyphenated). During my first marriage, I adopted my husband\'s name. Sometimes, especially on written forms, I used the hyphenated combination.
Now that I have remarried, I use only my maiden name.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sarah Ponting
: interesting link, but I don't agree with what they say about Italy - a woman has to use her maiden name for all official purposes
6 mins
|
agree |
achisholm
: I agree with Sarahs comment, in Italy a woman is only officially recognised by her surname at birth.
1 hr
|
agree |
verbis
: yes, WE KEEP OUR MAIDEN NAME!!!!!
6 hrs
|
agree |
Rajan Chopra
13 hrs
|
agree |
Rahi Moosavi
4 days
|
+4
7 mins
double names becoming more common
It's certainly becoming more and more common, along with other variations on the theme (e.g. hyphenated combinations of husband's and wife's last name, each person simply maintaining their own name, husband assuming wife's name). I don't think it's the status quo anywhere though. I guess it is a result of the women's movement, women being more independent than earlier and wanting to maintain their own identities (just some of the cultural background in case you aren't familiar with it).
Hillary Rodham Clinton immediately pops to mind.
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Note added at 10 mins (2003-10-10 13:28:10 GMT)
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In Switzerland it\'s in fact the law; Schmidt marries Holz and the last name is officially Schmidt-Holz (although in day to day use, just one name is often used). I\'m married to a Swiss man and I needed special written permission to keep my own last name instead of hyphenating!
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Note added at 16 mins (2003-10-10 13:34:39 GMT)
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Coretta Scott King
Hillary Rodham Clinton immediately pops to mind.
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Note added at 10 mins (2003-10-10 13:28:10 GMT)
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In Switzerland it\'s in fact the law; Schmidt marries Holz and the last name is officially Schmidt-Holz (although in day to day use, just one name is often used). I\'m married to a Swiss man and I needed special written permission to keep my own last name instead of hyphenating!
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Note added at 16 mins (2003-10-10 13:34:39 GMT)
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Coretta Scott King
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sarah Ponting
: I'm married to an Italian but have to use my maiden name for all official purposes, including work - my ID card is in my maiden name and my passport (GB) in my married name!
6 mins
|
agree |
Alison Schwitzgebel
: in my case it was an identity thing - that led to my completely unpronouncable surname.....
8 mins
|
agree |
Rajan Chopra
48 mins
|
agree |
Catherine Norton
1 hr
|
+1
19 mins
in Belgium women Do NOT change their names on marriage
which is why people here are so surprised that in our family we both use the same name!
I once travelled with a party of high-level officials, including several Belgian couples, in India and was quite surprised when they produced their passports in separate names (given their age group) and, worse still, had to explain things in each hotel because the staff were convinced that these were illicit couples.....
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Note added at 2003-10-10 13:41:50 (GMT)
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In FRANCE women tend to take their husbands names but a new law has been passed whereby couples can choose for their children whether to use the mother\'s name of the father\'s or a combination of both (and in what order).
Oddly, for the Social Security and the rest of officialdom, a women\'s name is ALWAYS her maiden name. Women even have to ask permission to keep their married names on divorce. Normally they should revert automatically, giving rise to comic situations if they remarry quite fast. I once had a colleague who changed names 3 times in a matter of months!
I once travelled with a party of high-level officials, including several Belgian couples, in India and was quite surprised when they produced their passports in separate names (given their age group) and, worse still, had to explain things in each hotel because the staff were convinced that these were illicit couples.....
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Note added at 2003-10-10 13:41:50 (GMT)
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In FRANCE women tend to take their husbands names but a new law has been passed whereby couples can choose for their children whether to use the mother\'s name of the father\'s or a combination of both (and in what order).
Oddly, for the Social Security and the rest of officialdom, a women\'s name is ALWAYS her maiden name. Women even have to ask permission to keep their married names on divorce. Normally they should revert automatically, giving rise to comic situations if they remarry quite fast. I once had a colleague who changed names 3 times in a matter of months!
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sarah Ponting
: same in Italy, but you can end up with 2 identities if you're a citizen of a country that does register a married woman with her husband's surname - it can get confusing sometimes!
8 mins
|
+1
41 mins
Famous people in France...
tend to keep their maiden names, if they became famous before they got married, that goes for a number of movie stars, singers, etc. But this is not the rule for ordinary women. They always have a choice. As a freelancer, for instance, I kept my maiden name because everyone professional knows me under that name. The general rule, however, is to use your married name, even the tax authorities have how granted me double identity: one for VAT (married name) one for income tax purposes (single name).
Peer comment(s):
agree |
CMJ_Trans (X)
: true but, since we're on ths subject, I have often been asked to sign using my laiden name on official documents in France, even though I abandoned the name eons ago and no longer react when I hear it called ! Tax bills have both names on them.
37 mins
|
+2
41 mins
slightly different in the UK
In England the practice of hyphenating your own and your husband's surname does happen, but it not common. In my experience it happens rather more often that women keep their own surname on marriage, if they don't want to take their husband's. In some cases they use their maiden name for work purposes and their married name for family-related things, which can get confusing.
None of this happens particularly frequently - the most usual thing is still for women to take their husband's surname, but the other options are available if you don't want to do that.
None of this happens particularly frequently - the most usual thing is still for women to take their husband's surname, but the other options are available if you don't want to do that.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
CMJ_Trans (X)
: especially since anyone - either ex - can adopt a different name by convention any time he or she likes. SInce we have no identity cards, this is not difficult
41 mins
|
agree |
jerrie
: Just trying to think of a famous UK one...can only think of Helena Bonham-Carter, Tara Palmer-Tomkinson (latter definitely not through own marriage - birthright!)
1 hr
|
48 mins
In Portugal
In Portugal, women usually adopt the husband’s name. Having said that, women are allowed to keep their maiden name, if they want, as most men do, and men are also allowed to adopt their wife’s name. In my case, I kept my maiden name; it was my husband who adopted my surname “Brum”.
1 hr
One more for Germany
I know a person (not personally)whose name is
"Woelk-Alevisopoulus" (a Greek husband, it seems).
Or what do you think of "Krenz-Maes" ("Maes" to be pronounced in German "Määß" (reminds me kind of a sheep, whereby, standing on its own, it would sound ok, but the double name is terrible, as for me.)
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Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2003-10-10 14:39:37 GMT)
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One more- forgot, even tougher:
Simone \"Greiner-Petter-Memm\" (quite a successful female German biatleth). She already had a double name, now has a triple one.
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Note added at 1 hr 24 mins (2003-10-10 14:41:55 GMT)
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Or Gunda Niemann-Stirnemann, world champion in ice-skating.
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Note added at 1 hr 28 mins (2003-10-10 14:45:49 GMT)
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Or Gunda Niemann-Stirnemann, world champion in ice-skating.
"Woelk-Alevisopoulus" (a Greek husband, it seems).
Or what do you think of "Krenz-Maes" ("Maes" to be pronounced in German "Määß" (reminds me kind of a sheep, whereby, standing on its own, it would sound ok, but the double name is terrible, as for me.)
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Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2003-10-10 14:39:37 GMT)
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One more- forgot, even tougher:
Simone \"Greiner-Petter-Memm\" (quite a successful female German biatleth). She already had a double name, now has a triple one.
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Note added at 1 hr 24 mins (2003-10-10 14:41:55 GMT)
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Or Gunda Niemann-Stirnemann, world champion in ice-skating.
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Note added at 1 hr 28 mins (2003-10-10 14:45:49 GMT)
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Or Gunda Niemann-Stirnemann, world champion in ice-skating.
+2
1 hr
depends also on the reasons
I come from the UK where it is much more common that the woman adopts her husbands surname. There are exceptions and usually they come about for a reason. For example, I am a scientist with numerous publications relating to the research I have carried out. I have known several women who worked with me, who after getting married kept their surnames or adopted a hyphenated name so that there was some degree of consistency with their publication list (which is the prime career asset for a scientist).
I have also heard of this practice in cases where women have used their names as their "trademarks" for which ever line of business they are in. This way clients can relate the married womans name, to the one she used when she was working with them before she was married (I'm thinking of a lawyer in this specific example).
I have also heard of this practice in cases where women have used their names as their "trademarks" for which ever line of business they are in. This way clients can relate the married womans name, to the one she used when she was working with them before she was married (I'm thinking of a lawyer in this specific example).
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lanna Castellano
: Keeping one's own name is more+more usual for professional women (useful when average no of husbands is 2+). They can switch to married name in their family/mother role. In UK you can call yourself what you like, if it's not for illicit purposes.
19 mins
|
agree |
Matthew Fagan
6 days
|
2 hrs
Asker, you do not mention hyphenation at all.
The most common traditional practice has been for a married woman to keep her maiden name, followed by her husband's surname. For example, if Jane Doe marries John Smith, she becomes Jane Doe Smith.
+1
3 hrs
In Denmark
...a woman may keep her maiden name, change it to that of her husband or keep both.
The man may also take on his wife's name upon marriage, although I don't think a lot of men do!
Very often, women keeping their maiden name are actors, singers etc. who have made a name for themselves and therefore it would be difficult for them to change their name. I do believe, however, that this has become more common for 'common people' like ourselves to keep their surnames. There could be any number of reasons for this.
HTH
The man may also take on his wife's name upon marriage, although I don't think a lot of men do!
Very often, women keeping their maiden name are actors, singers etc. who have made a name for themselves and therefore it would be difficult for them to change their name. I do believe, however, that this has become more common for 'common people' like ourselves to keep their surnames. There could be any number of reasons for this.
HTH
6 hrs
as for Italy
we keep our surname which does not change at all
if a lady named MARIA ROSSI marries a chap named "GIORGIO BIANCHI", after the marriage her name will still be "MARIA ROSSI"
ciao
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