Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
sur cour
English translation:
not yet loaded (in yard/works)/ex works
French term
sur cour
I can't work out what they mean by sur cour I've come across the expression ex works - would it just be ex yard?
Oct 25, 2012 12:40: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial"
Oct 25, 2012 13:44: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Business/Commerce (general)" to "Transport / Transportation / Shipping"
Nov 8, 2012 14:25: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
unloaded (in yard/works)/ex works
However, here, where mention is made
où le transport est effectué par l’Acheteur ou payé directement par lui à un tiers : sur cour ou sur camion, wagon ou bateau départ;
where the buyer decides on the transport or pays a third party directly: either unloaded in the yard=ex works or on (the transport chosen) on the truck, rail(car) or boat/ship (prior to departing the yard or works)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2012-10-26 09:58:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, I think the extra context makes it far more clear that this is "ex-works" with the meaning of being "unloaded in the manufacturer's yard". The definition clearly explains what is involved here and that the risk is taken on by the buyer as soon as they start loading the goods at the yard. (from the incoterms)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms#Incoterms_2010
EXW – Ex Works (named place of delivery)
The seller makes the goods available at its premises. This term places the maximum obligation on the buyer and minimum obligations on the seller. The Ex Works term is often used when making an initial quotation for the sale of goods without any costs included. EXW means that a seller has the goods ready for collection at his premises (works, factory, warehouse, plant) on the date agreed upon. The buyer pays all transportation costs and also bears the risks for bringing the goods to their final destination. The seller doesn't load the goods on collecting vehicles and doesn't clear them for export. If the seller does load the goods, he does so at buyer's risk and cost. If parties wish seller to be responsible for the loading of the goods on departure and to bear the risk and all costs of such loading, this must be made clear by adding explicit wording to this effect in the contract of sale.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2012-10-26 10:27:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or NOT YET LOADED as Tony & Veronika suggest (in manufacture's yard) might be even more clear though I do believe "ex-works" is fine here
neutral |
Tony M
: I suspect it means in the manufacturer's yard, i.e. not yet loaded on the lorry.
1 hr
|
yep, why I asked if tiles are going directly from factory!
|
|
agree |
Wolf Draeger
: ex works
2 hrs
|
thanks Wolf, presuming answer to my question is "yes"
|
|
agree |
Cyril B.
: ex works
16 hrs
|
Thanks Cyril. With extra context I believe this is right.
|
on the ground
FCA (free carrier)
In any case, my understanding here is that the seller is including the costs of loading and delivering the goods to the main transport terminal and point of departure (which could be the seller's own premises, in which case FCA differs from ex works in that the costs of loading and packing are included).
So, in the case of road transport, sur cour could mean "delivery and loading onto truck/train", for sea it could be "delivery and loading onto vessel" (in which the correct term would be FOB - free on board) and for air it could be "delivery and loading onto plane" (in which case it would be FCA).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms
http://www.iccwbo.org/products-and-services/trade-facilitation/incoterms-2010/the-incoterms-rules/
neutral |
Tony M
: I suspect it means in the manufacturer's yard, i.e. not yet loaded on the lorry.
2 hrs
|
Tks Tony; yes, I'm beginning to think so too.
|
in-house transport of materials (at pick-up location)
If the buyer isn't going take his purchased materials away by truck, boat, etc, at the yard, then perhaps he's going to pick up these materials and then relocate them to another part of the yard for storage, which is his responsibility (sur cour = somewhere on the yard). That's all I can think of now.
Best of luck!
I hope this helps.
agree |
Veronica Coquard
: Yes, this could be another take on it; at a warehouse.
17 hrs
|
Thank you, Veronica! I appreciate it. Bon week-end!
|
at the seller's / vendor's / manufacturer's premises / factory
neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I believe it's clear it's "unloaded ...(PRIOR TO DEPARTING the yard or works)" as stated in my answer//exactly:-)
33 mins
|
As in "not yet loaded"? // As I say, I don't disagree with the rest of your explanations; but if you end up doing a glossary entry, please change "unloaded" to "not yet loaded" to avoid the obvious confusion.
|
Discussion
Long speech which doesn't help with this question, I know ;-) but maybe will help with rest of text.
2nd, different incoterms allocate responsibility and liability to the seller & buyer differently. If my memory serves me right, in FCA/FOB the seller is responsible and liable for the goods up to the agreed place of delivery, whereas in CPT/CFR the seller is responsible for the goods up until the end destination, but only liable for them up to the point of departure.
So, in case of both FOB & CFR, if something happens to the goods between Seller's premises and loading on the vessel, Seller is both responsible for resolving the issue and liable for any resultant costs (if goods are stolen/damaged, Seller must replace them at his own cost); but in the case of CFR, Seller's liability ends as soon as the goods have crossed the ship's rail, though his responsibility last until end destination. Thus, if the vessel were to sink or be attacked by pirates, or if the goods were to fall overboard, Seller would not be liable for any resulting losses/damages.
That clashes with the sentence that says the goods travel at all times at Buyer's risk.
II - LIVRAISON
Nos produits sont livrés :
- Conditionnés selon les méthodes en vigueur lors de leur fabrication;
- Dans le cas où le transport est effectué par l’Acheteur ou payé directement par lui à un tiers : sur cour ou sur camion, wagon ou bateau départ;
- Dans le cas où le transport est effectué par le Vendeur : sur camion, wagon ou bateau arrivée;
- Dans tous les cas, les Produits commandés voyagent aux risques et périls de l’Acheteur, à compter de la mise à disposition des Produits dans les locaux du Vendeur.
Les livraisons ne sont opérées qu’en fonction des disponibilités des Produits et des transports et dans l’ordre d’arrivée des commandes. Les dates de livraison données par le Vendeur ne sont qu’indicatives.
Le transfert des risques à compter de la mise à disposition des Produits dans les locaux du Vendeur n'entraînera le transfert de propriété des Produits que lorsque les conditions de l'article X ci-après seront satisfaites.
Since it is specified a few sentances later that the buyer assumes all risks during transport in all cases I tend to think that "sur cour ..." is not referring to liability (INCO terms).
The text doesn't use any incoterms, so I still think ex works would work here, since it wouldn't contradict anything and be legally and technically correct. It would then be up to the seller to specify what is meant by a given term in the event of an actual transaction.