Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
reconocer a Israel como un elemento de vecindad y de paz
English translation:
recognize Israel as integral to peace and regional cohesion
Added to glossary by
Kate Major Patience
Feb 24, 2009 21:59
15 yrs ago
Spanish term
reconocer a Israel como un elemento de vecindad y de paz
Spanish to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Cooperation
Middle East: Israel and Gaza.
Representantes de la UE o del Consejo de Europa no tienen por qué hablar con Hamás hasta que acepte abandonar la violencia, respetar la legalidad internacional y reconocer a Israel como un elemento de vecindad y de paz.
From a speech made by Minister Moratinos.
Having some trouble expressing the short section above. It´s obviously delicate, and I am not sure I am getting it right. All suggestions welcome. International English. Thanks in advance.
Representantes de la UE o del Consejo de Europa no tienen por qué hablar con Hamás hasta que acepte abandonar la violencia, respetar la legalidad internacional y reconocer a Israel como un elemento de vecindad y de paz.
From a speech made by Minister Moratinos.
Having some trouble expressing the short section above. It´s obviously delicate, and I am not sure I am getting it right. All suggestions welcome. International English. Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Feb 24, 2009 22:01: Miguel Armentia changed "Language pair" from "English to Spanish" to "Spanish to English"
Proposed translations
+4
46 mins
Selected
recognize Israel as integral to peace and regional cohesion
Really tricky, Kate. Literal or near-literal doesn't do it for me here. You want the concepts and the standard English lexis of the conflict. If you don't like the above, I've also got an easy version: recognise Israel. (And write the rest of the phrase off as politician's blah blah blah.)
Note from asker:
After some time translating this stuff on a daily basis, sometimes it seems that diplomacy, so politically correct, has the potential to up either revealing hidden partiality or ending up being so bland... It can be frustrating, and confusing. In this case, I´m with you. The original is easy to misconstrue in English. The best thing here may well be to play the game and give a neutral answer that gets across the ambiguity that is often a characteristic of this kind of declaration. This is a strange little phrase. I think that your answer is the best option thus far, and you have picked up on exactly the kind of tone that it´s our duty to get across. Diplomacy isn´t always the same as doing the right thing, but our job is to translate the sense (in this diplomatic text, that, on balance, the states are neighbours and must relate to each other, like it or no), and the tone (neutral, diplomatic) not put words in their mouths. I hope that makes sense. At this time of night, it´s not so easy. :D |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Yael Ramon
: I think Kate is looking for exactly what you are trying to waive as blah blah - what can be heard behind the politically correct standards.
14 mins
|
She is, Yael, and I tried to supply it. The blah blah blah bit was a suggested escape route out of a possible linguistic impasse - secondary to my answer and politically neutral.
|
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agree |
James A. Walsh
: I have to say David, this has a lot of clout, and is certainly the sort of language I would expect to read about the conflict, especially from Europe.
1 hr
|
Thanks, James
|
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agree |
Wil Hardman (X)
: I think your first solution captures the meaning nicely, I really like regional cohesion for 'vecinidad', great solution. I even plagurised it in one of my answers :)
1 hr
|
Thanks, Will - you are of course free to use it :)
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agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
: It is a tricky one, but I now think this is the best translation of all those offered.
12 hrs
|
Thanks, Catherine
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agree |
Sinead --
17 hrs
|
Thanks, Sinead
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Wow. So much interesting input. Thanks so much everyone. I´ll leave it there, as we´ve had plenty of debate on this one already. But many thanks to you all. Have a great week. :)"
6 mins
Recognize Israel as an element of <neighborliness/peaceful coexistence>
rgds
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Note added at 7 mins (2009-02-24 22:06:58 GMT)
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element or factor ...
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Note added at 7 mins (2009-02-24 22:06:58 GMT)
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element or factor ...
10 mins
recognize Israel as a peaceful member of the community (neighborhood)
en este caso, una operación conmutativa, suerte!
+1
13 mins
recognise the right of Israel to live as a neighbour in peace
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Carter: Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor
Posted 4/21/2008 2:17 PM | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Save | Print |
By Karin Laub, Associated Press Writer
JERUSALEM — Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas -- the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel -- is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."
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Carter: Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor
Posted 4/21/2008 2:17 PM | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Save | Print |
By Karin Laub, Associated Press Writer
JERUSALEM — Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas -- the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel -- is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
34 mins
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
Yael Ramon
42 mins
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
James A. Walsh
: I might be tempted to say 'exist' rather than 'live'. This would be my safe "EU" line, based on the fact that this is the line the EU virtually always takes in the situation.
1 hr
|
Thanks!
|
|
disagree |
Alex Lago
: this misses the point of the phrase
1 hr
|
disagree |
Wil Hardman (X)
: Hi, bcsantos, in this instance I don't think it is talking about Israel's right to peace but rather that it has a part to play in achieving peace.
1 hr
|
-1
13 mins
recognize Israel as a neighbo(u)r and a peace element
recognize Israel as a neighbo(u)r and a peace element
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
James A. Walsh
: Again, what is "a peace element"?? (Post comment) I haven't posted an answer because the answers are already here. I'm just using the KudoZ options to comment. That's what they're for, right?? I simply asked you to explain what "a peace element" is...
1 hr
|
Plz post ur suggestion/answer cz we need to learn from u Mr James A Walsh!!!!
|
-3
44 mins
recognize and accept the state of Israel as a pacifist neighbor
you have to understand the origins of the minister's comment: Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right (internationaly recognized- so the minister) to survive. The minister therefore suggests, that it is not until this right is also respected by Hamas, mainly by giving up the violence methods, that the EU and CE should enter in negociation with Hamas.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Catherine Gilsenan
: I don't think you could ever regard Israel as "pacifist".
2 mins
|
well, here you are trying to drag me into a political discussion. i therefore agree to change my offer to "recognize and accept Israel's right to live as a neigbor in peace", which is closser to what bcsantos offered, and i therefore also agree with her.
|
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disagree |
David Ronder
: Since when was Israel pacifist? (I don't mean peace-minded.) Shalom, Ramon.
3 mins
|
Dear David, see my answer to Catherine Gilsenan.
|
|
disagree |
James A. Walsh
: I'm afraid I disagree too. You have not translated or even rendered the text here; you have in fact politicized your answer to be pro-Israeli. This is not a place for politics; it is a place for translators to help other translators out. Read the rules.
48 mins
|
-1
45 mins
recognise Israel as (a) peaceful and neighbourly (element)
-
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
James A. Walsh
: Describing a State as an "element" doesn't really work for me...
56 mins
|
1 hr
recognize Israel as a an element for neighbourliness and peace
another option
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
James A. Walsh
: "neighbourliness" sounds very clumsy to me in English. Of course it is a word (I'm not an idiot), I would never use it in this context in a million years though! Of course others can use it to their hearts content, but, it doesn’t make for good reading.
8 mins
|
it is an actual word, sorry you don't like it in this instance. Didn't mean to imply you are an idiot, sorry if you thought so, however just because you would not use a word doesn't mean other people can't use it
|
2 hrs
recognise Israel as a fundamental part of achieving peace and regional cohesion
or 'recognise Israel as a fundamental part of achieving peaceful coexsitence.
A couple of options.
Not literal renderings but I think they capture the meaning.
A couple of options.
Not literal renderings but I think they capture the meaning.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
James A. Walsh
: Although I think this sounds brilliant Will, I also think it’s a rather over-extended rendition of the text, and also feel it's a blatant copy of David Ronder’s answer.
15 mins
|
All fair points James, I admit there is slight over-translation for the sake of style, (perhaps fundamental should be removed) and it is a copy of David's answer, I have said as much, I also put another version below, but I like 'regional cohesion' better
|
12 hrs
recognize Israel as an element of good neighbourly relations and peace.
This is what I remember from my Diplomacy 101.
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Discussion
I'm sorry, since I can't come up with a better option anyway. Still...