Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
St. or St (Saint)
English answer:
St (for the UK)
Added to glossary by
María José Iglesias
Jan 14, 2009 16:34
15 yrs ago
114 viewers *
English term
Italy
Traduzioni Asseverate e Multilingua
Works in: Italian to Spanish, Spanish to Italian, Spanish, and 17 more.
St. or St (Saint)
Non-PRO
English
Other
Linguistics
Could you please help me to understand if after the word "Saint" shortened "St" there is a point or not? That is: "St." or "St" (for ex.: St. John Lateran or St John Lateran).
I believe there is a rule saying that if the last letter of the abbreviation is also the last of the entire word, there is no need of the full stop.
Is that right?
Thank you!
I believe there is a rule saying that if the last letter of the abbreviation is also the last of the entire word, there is no need of the full stop.
Is that right?
Thank you!
Responses
| 4 +3 | St for the Brits |
MoiraB
|
| 3 +7 | I always knew it with a '.' |
jccantrell
|
| 4 | Without the full stop my reccomendation |
Shai Navé
|
References
| Oxford says... |
Tony M
|
| Further to Tony's posting |
Ken Cox
|
Change log
Jan 14, 2009 17:25: Tony M changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): Edith Kelly
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Responses
+3
18 mins
Selected
St for the Brits
Yes, that's the convention in British English, but I believe the Americans don't follow it. To give another example, Brits would write Prof. but Dr - unless Dr came at the end of a sentence, of course. Generally, American English seems to use more full stops than UK English (U.S.A. cf USA).
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Note added at 31 mins (2009-01-14 17:05:32 GMT)
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Jack must have led a sheltered life ;) because even Wikipedia says:
In British English, abbreviations of titles often omit a full stop, as in Mr, Dr, Prof, which in American English would be given as Mr., Dr., Prof. The rule "If the abbreviation includes both the first and last letter of the abbreviated word, as in mister and doctor, a full stop is not used." is sometimes given,[3] though this does not include Professor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_stop
(the footnote ref. 3 refers to Oxford A–Z of Grammar and Punctuation by John Seely)
Or:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuat...
Note carefully the use of full stops in these abbreviations. British usage favours omitting the full stop in abbreviations which include the first and last letters of a single word, such as Mr, Mrs, Ms, Dr and St; American usage prefers (A) Mr., Mrs., Ms., Dr. and St., with full stops. Most other abbreviated titles, however, require a full stop, as shown above.
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Note added at 31 mins (2009-01-14 17:05:32 GMT)
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Jack must have led a sheltered life ;) because even Wikipedia says:
In British English, abbreviations of titles often omit a full stop, as in Mr, Dr, Prof, which in American English would be given as Mr., Dr., Prof. The rule "If the abbreviation includes both the first and last letter of the abbreviated word, as in mister and doctor, a full stop is not used." is sometimes given,[3] though this does not include Professor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_stop
(the footnote ref. 3 refers to Oxford A–Z of Grammar and Punctuation by John Seely)
Or:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuat...
Note carefully the use of full stops in these abbreviations. British usage favours omitting the full stop in abbreviations which include the first and last letters of a single word, such as Mr, Mrs, Ms, Dr and St; American usage prefers (A) Mr., Mrs., Ms., Dr. and St., with full stops. Most other abbreviated titles, however, require a full stop, as shown above.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much at all and for the reference too. Bye!
"
+7
13 mins
jccantrell
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
United States
Was nicht ist, kann noch werden.
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
31
I always knew it with a '.'
Have never heard of the rule you mention. Maybe the Brits have it, but in the US, I would use the '.'
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Edith Kelly
: if one is not too sloppy, then yes
2 mins
|
| agree |
Jack Doughty
: The Brits don't have any such rule either; I've never heard of it anyway.
3 mins
|
| agree |
Adsion Liu
16 mins
|
| agree |
Melanie Nassar
: I've heard this rule as an explanation for why you often (always?) see Mr and Mrs in UK-EN, but in the US at least, you need the *.* for St./Mr./Mrs./Dr.
21 mins
|
| agree |
NancyLynn
: I teach at St. Lawrence College in Canada (College Saint-Laurent in French)
24 mins
|
| agree |
Taña Dalglish
: Never heard the rule either. The rule I know is once abbreviated, it requires *.*; BTW, I have always used Mr*.* & Mrs*.* (UK English & that is how I was taught! Wikipedia is not always 100% reliable, IMO).
30 mins
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: But only for US; UK style guides are fairly clear about the 'last letter = no point' rule for UK English
40 mins
|
| agree |
Phong Le
9 hrs
|
21 mins
Without the full stop my reccomendation
There is much debate about this issue and I'm not sure that there is any decisive measure about it.
In English-UK it is common to add a full stop of the word gets cut at the point of abbreviation. For example professor becomes prof.
In US English I know that it is custom to add a full stop if the abbreviation might otherwise might be understood as a word.
In practice I see often that each writer add or doesn't add the full stop according to what he is custom to.
So, I guess that you can use whatever you are custom too, and you can't "go wrong" since as far as I know there isn't any strict rule about it (at least not one that manifest itself in practice).
In English-UK it is common to add a full stop of the word gets cut at the point of abbreviation. For example professor becomes prof.
In US English I know that it is custom to add a full stop if the abbreviation might otherwise might be understood as a word.
In practice I see often that each writer add or doesn't add the full stop according to what he is custom to.
So, I guess that you can use whatever you are custom too, and you can't "go wrong" since as far as I know there isn't any strict rule about it (at least not one that manifest itself in practice).
Reference comments
58 mins
Reference:
Oxford says...
An extract from the Oxford Reference Shelf Usage Guide, which is a very much abridged version of the main Oxford works on the subject:
abbreviations
It is usual to indicate an abbreviation by placing a point (full stop) after it, e.g.
H. G. Wells, five miles S. (= south), B.Litt., Kt., Sun. (= Sunday), Jan. (= January), p. 7 (= page 7), ft., in., lb., cm.
However, no point is necessary:
1. With a sequence of capitals alone, e.g. BBC, MA, QC, NNE, BC, AD, PLC (and not, of course, with acronyms, e.g. Aslef, Naafi).
2. With the numerical abbreviations 1st, 2nd, etc.
3. C, F (of temperature), chemical symbols, and measures of length, weight, time, etc. in scientific and technical use.
4. Dr, Revd, Mr, Mrs, Ms, Mme, Mlle, St, Hants, Northants, p ( = penny or pence).
5. In words that are colloquial abbreviations, e.g. co-op, demo, recap, trad, vac.
[end of quote]
The "no point needed if abbreviation includes both first and last letters of the word" is found in other UK style guides.
abbreviations
It is usual to indicate an abbreviation by placing a point (full stop) after it, e.g.
H. G. Wells, five miles S. (= south), B.Litt., Kt., Sun. (= Sunday), Jan. (= January), p. 7 (= page 7), ft., in., lb., cm.
However, no point is necessary:
1. With a sequence of capitals alone, e.g. BBC, MA, QC, NNE, BC, AD, PLC (and not, of course, with acronyms, e.g. Aslef, Naafi).
2. With the numerical abbreviations 1st, 2nd, etc.
3. C, F (of temperature), chemical symbols, and measures of length, weight, time, etc. in scientific and technical use.
4. Dr, Revd, Mr, Mrs, Ms, Mme, Mlle, St, Hants, Northants, p ( = penny or pence).
5. In words that are colloquial abbreviations, e.g. co-op, demo, recap, trad, vac.
[end of quote]
The "no point needed if abbreviation includes both first and last letters of the word" is found in other UK style guides.
3 hrs
Reference:
Further to Tony's posting
From the Oxford Guide to Style:
Traditionally, abbreviations were supposed to end in full points while contractions did not, giving rise to both Jun. and Jr for Junior, and Rev. and Revd for Reverend. Handy though this rule is, common usage increasingly fails to bear it out: both ed. (for editor or edited by) and edn. (for edition) end in a point; Street is St. with a point to avoid confusion with St for Saint. Further, US English tends to use punctuation more than British English (U.S.A. rather than USA),, and non-technical English in both countries uses more punctuation than technical English (ml. rather than ml)....
Traditionally, abbreviations were supposed to end in full points while contractions did not, giving rise to both Jun. and Jr for Junior, and Rev. and Revd for Reverend. Handy though this rule is, common usage increasingly fails to bear it out: both ed. (for editor or edited by) and edn. (for edition) end in a point; Street is St. with a point to avoid confusion with St for Saint. Further, US English tends to use punctuation more than British English (U.S.A. rather than USA),, and non-technical English in both countries uses more punctuation than technical English (ml. rather than ml)....
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