| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Poll: When a potential translation job is described to me, the word(s) I dread hearing the most is Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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kchansen
Local time: 19:49
English to Danish
| "We found your name on ..." | Apr 1, 2008 |
One thing I dread is the agency that contacts me out of the blue with a job (usually "urgent"), having found my name on proz.com or translationzone.com. I have nothing against proz.com or translationzone but I do have something against "agencies" that would send a job to a translator they never heard of before and never tested. This means the agency doesn't care about the quality of the job they send to the end client, which means... See more One thing I dread is the agency that contacts me out of the blue with a job (usually "urgent"), having found my name on proz.com or translationzone.com. I have nothing against proz.com or translationzone but I do have something against "agencies" that would send a job to a translator they never heard of before and never tested. This means the agency doesn't care about the quality of the job they send to the end client, which means they give translation a bad name.
Runners-up:
"Urgent, can you fit this in?" (usually about jobs that will take one half to one full day): Oh, yes of course - I don't have other clients, I was just sitting standby here, waiting for you to call.
"Easy" or "Straightforward": Usually means it ain't.
"Can you give us your best price, please?": Sure - it's the same price I'd charge any other client. I'm usually booked days in advance, so taking on a low-price job for one client means I'll have to reject a better paid job from another client, most likely an existing client, who will then find another translator, meaning I might lose the client. And, I'd be destroying the market not only for myself but also for other translators.
EDIT: Almost forgot one of the worst: "We want you to use this new and improved tool..." or "We need you to do some extra checks in ...": Translation for the uninitiated: We have our own proprietary tool which you will have to spend time learning, or we need you to do some technical checks after the translation in a tool which, it turns out DOESN'T WORK on localized versions of Windows and .NET Framework! (I won't identify the agency and end client in the latter case but they are both quite large and well-known.)
[Edited at 2008-04-01 14:34] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arz K.
Türkiye
Local time: 20:49
English to Turkish
+ ...
urgent "and" from friends
... so you can spend your weekend at home translating documents while your friends are having a great time. Worst thing it is too short to charge your friend or the pay is offerred in exchange of favours. (meal, drink, job in exchange etc.). Try to say no!
And I agree, I first check the text to be translated. Always. And if I say no, I don't worry, because I still get other jobs and will not feel guilty and I will not be punished by a streak o... See more urgent "and" from friends
... so you can spend your weekend at home translating documents while your friends are having a great time. Worst thing it is too short to charge your friend or the pay is offerred in exchange of favours. (meal, drink, job in exchange etc.). Try to say no!
And I agree, I first check the text to be translated. Always. And if I say no, I don't worry, because I still get other jobs and will not feel guilty and I will not be punished by a streak of bad luck!
[Edited at 2008-04-01 09:01] ▲ Collapse
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No-one can hold a candle to Turkish clients when it comes to demanding the impossible!
At six PM on a Friday evening, your phone rings: "The client needs it translated at nine on Monday morning! It is verrry urgent!"
"How many words?"
"Oh about 200.000 words, the subject is high profile legal material. It must be translated form Turkish into X language."
Oh, of course, I forgot, a translator never sleeps, eats or has a break. S/he never has a ... See more No-one can hold a candle to Turkish clients when it comes to demanding the impossible!
At six PM on a Friday evening, your phone rings: "The client needs it translated at nine on Monday morning! It is verrry urgent!"
"How many words?"
"Oh about 200.000 words, the subject is high profile legal material. It must be translated form Turkish into X language."
Oh, of course, I forgot, a translator never sleeps, eats or has a break. S/he never has a family, survives through a direct connection to his/her computer and works 24/7... And of course, s/he works at the speed of Clark Kent. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stephen Gobin
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:49
German to English
+ ...
| Easy/Straightforward | Apr 1, 2008 |
This is without doubt the worst term for me. Why? Becuse it's completely subjective. Who is it "easy" for? The agency, the end client?
I have never had one translation that could be described as so straightforward that my fingers just slide across the keyboard. Every text I've translated - including the ones described as "general" - contains translation problems that have to be resolved one way or another.
The word "urgent" is easier to deal with for a translator. You ... See more This is without doubt the worst term for me. Why? Becuse it's completely subjective. Who is it "easy" for? The agency, the end client?
I have never had one translation that could be described as so straightforward that my fingers just slide across the keyboard. Every text I've translated - including the ones described as "general" - contains translation problems that have to be resolved one way or another.
The word "urgent" is easier to deal with for a translator. You either accept, decline or try and renegotiate the delivery date for the job. If a company has a particularly important project with strict deadlines, then it all comes down to planning and this includes allowing sufficient time for a commercially usable translation. If a company has spent months developing something, why waste all that work on a translation that has had to be turned round on a sixpence. ▲ Collapse
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| Urgent text by non-native author to come | Apr 1, 2008 |
Thursday morning call from a long-time customer: "We'll get an English text by a non-native author tomorrow morning, we need it Monday morning. It will be edited by a native English proofreader." This typically happens with texts that are already behind schedule and it indicates that the non-native author will need much more time and will not make it until the established deadline and therefore there will be no editing. You have calculated a modest rush surcharge for this assignment which will t... See more Thursday morning call from a long-time customer: "We'll get an English text by a non-native author tomorrow morning, we need it Monday morning. It will be edited by a native English proofreader." This typically happens with texts that are already behind schedule and it indicates that the non-native author will need much more time and will not make it until the established deadline and therefore there will be no editing. You have calculated a modest rush surcharge for this assignment which will take you two days, one of which will be in the weekend. As the text does not arrive Friday noon you renegotiate a slightly higher rush surcharge, because now 1 1/2 working days will be during the weekend. The customer tells you he'll close now until Monday and the author will mail the text directly to you in the afternoon. You start calling friends and cancel appointments you already made. Still, the text does not arrive, and you try in vain to call customer and author. Saturday afternoon you receive the text--incomprehensible broken English describing trailblazing ideas on a very special field, say art theory, which is your specialty. Author admits there was no time for editing. You wish to kill him and could you contact the customer you would now renegotiate an additional fee for your time spent with deciphering incomprehensible content. You start working on it, need two times more time than with a native's text, send out questions to the author in order to decode the text, and then, with children and wife moaning and grumbling, lock yourself again in the office until early next morning. All Sunday the same--work through day and night until 4 a.m. Finally you manage to compress 4 day's work into 1 1/2. Monday morning the author provides some explanations, you weave them into the text, modifying and adapting the preceding and the following sentences, though you can hardly concentrate on it. Deliver the text with aching back, head and eyes, and fall to bed dead tired to take two days' rest, but be sure that within the next hour some call will get you out of bed again. Prepare for telling a grumbling client that you will now charge an even higher surcharge and try to beg for compensation for at least some of the additional work caused by the poorly-written text. Insist or die, because you will be physically unable to work and make money during the two next days. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jonas Frizell
Sweden
Local time: 19:49
Member (2006)
English to Swedish
+ ...
...which generally means comparing five different revisions of source texts against an outdated target text with certain parts highlighted for no reason, and copy pasting from Excel spreadsheets into pdf-files, at your best rate.
| | | | Jonathan Downie (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:49
French to English
+ ...
| We are a non-profit company | Apr 1, 2008 |
Sorry, I am not one, so I can't afford to work for £0.01 per word. I don't mind urgent ones so long as they are reasonable and they realise it will cost them extra.
I like the one for the developing country. With outsourcing, does anyone else reckon this might be used by big businesses to try and get lower rates?
| | | | | "My budget only allows $0.000001 per word...." | Apr 1, 2008 |
very common line from one agency in particular...
to which I reply my dignity only allows me to tell you to get lost.
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| Is there a corollary? | Apr 1, 2008 |
Jonathan Downie wrote:
I like the one for the developing country. With outsourcing, does anyone else reckon this might be used by big businesses to try and get lower rates?
I wonder if any agency would say that as the end client is headquartered in a stagnant country, we are ready for rates at GBP 1.00/word and above.
| | | | Paul Lambert
Sweden
Local time: 19:49
Member (2006)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Volume discounts | Apr 1, 2008 |
Edited to add: I also wanted to answer that "best rate" is another classic. I especially love the ones who want volume discounts. I don't know about anyone else, but more work for less pay is what I live for.... *eyeroll*.
[Edited at 2008-03-19 12:07]
Indeed, "volume discount" is the term I hate so much. Not so much that I am totally against the idea if there are good deadlines, a good file format (Word) and otherwise a reasonable rate, but it seems that the kind of clients who want volume discounts are the kind who send PDF's of faxed texts and expect it do be done in a day. As well, how 3000 words could qualify for a "volume" discount is beyond me.
| | | | | If you do your job right, there is no word to be afraid of. | Apr 1, 2008 |
If you do your job right, there is no word to be afraid of.
All the problems described in this thread can be tracked back to translator not following seven golden rules, which I learned the hard way to follow:
1)
I provide a binding quote upon receiving complete source text and all relevant info about the job. No exceptions. Period.
(Would you buy a car without seeing it - probably not - so if you take a job without seeing it is even more stupid, because your own behind a... See more If you do your job right, there is no word to be afraid of.
All the problems described in this thread can be tracked back to translator not following seven golden rules, which I learned the hard way to follow:
1)
I provide a binding quote upon receiving complete source text and all relevant info about the job. No exceptions. Period.
(Would you buy a car without seeing it - probably not - so if you take a job without seeing it is even more stupid, because your own behind and reputation is on the line).
2)
If the customer sounds cheap, he is most probably cheap. I don't work for cheap customers, I leave it to my cheap colleagues (smile). If you have to compete for a job solely on the basis of lowest price, you have a problem, which this discussion will not fix.
3)
If it sounds fishy, it is most probably fishy. Don't be afraid to ask for a deposit by credit card, PayPal, Moneybookers or whatever. It doesn't have to be a big amount, but at least a sign of a goodwill from the customer. If the customer is serious and really needs help, he will pay. Also all the payments are traceable, so if you never heard of the customer before, it will help to establish his identity. If not, problem is solved - somebody else will have this particular headache.
4)
If you feel you have to get this job, you will sound desperate and your customer will feel it and push down on the price until you will work for free.
5)
I never say no to a job, but I often price myself out of the job. Be careful with this, as in about 30% of cases customer says OK, so price the job really high, if you really don't want to do it (smile).
6)
Never say your price first, always let the customer start with numbers. And when he does, ask the magic question:
What is the best you can do on this job?
You often you get much more that you would dare to ask. When you get familiar with this one, you can improve on it. I usually say:
What is the best you can do on this job and still stay in business?
Customers like to hear that you are worried about them making money as well. Remember, the long time survival is when everybody is making money.
7)
Remember, there are ton of translators out there, but most of them are not exactly rocket scientists in price negotiations and therefore are working for peanuts. If you don't want to be one of them, ASK FOR MORE MONEY.
Remember, there is nothing wrong with being more expensive, especially when you get it. (smile)
Feel also free to check my site, where I post free jobs for translators and from time to time my rants about translation and interpreting like this one:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/tr_jobs/
Sincerely
Radek Pletka
202 470 6886
Czech and Slovak translator ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rob Albon
United States
Local time: 13:49
Japanese to English
+ ...
| I like urgent | Apr 1, 2008 |
I like urgent, because whenever I see the word "urgent" I get to use my two favorite words "rush rate".
"Rush rate" is then followed by five more of my favorite words, "payment 30 days after invoice".
These seven words really separate the wheat from the chaff.
Sure, many agencies complain about a "limited budget for the job" or their "standard payment policies", but if it really is urgent they will agree to your rate and your payment terms.
Urgent job... See more I like urgent, because whenever I see the word "urgent" I get to use my two favorite words "rush rate".
"Rush rate" is then followed by five more of my favorite words, "payment 30 days after invoice".
These seven words really separate the wheat from the chaff.
Sure, many agencies complain about a "limited budget for the job" or their "standard payment policies", but if it really is urgent they will agree to your rate and your payment terms.
Urgent jobs also seldom require silly tests.
An urgent job is often a chance to take a new client for a well-paid test drive.
Best of luck to everyone.
Rob ▲ Collapse
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Anthony Baldwin wrote: M. Anna Kańduła wrote: "Your best rate..." :| My best rate is 1 000 000 EUR per one letter  Anni I think that rate would work out nicely. Hmmmm.... (I do DETEST that "best rate" garbage!)  /tony
My answer to such questions usually is "$0.24 per word... which is 150% of the usual, just for asking that question. Thank you."
Rawful... ;>
But... seriously it's worth to try and explain to a customer the value he/she gets by agreeing to the standard rate, and by choosing a professional. Even if it is a non-profit project, the true value becomes visible only when such a client has to do the same work again because he/she chose a student or some gradma-dweller... When I see "best rate", in the back of my head I hear "the lack of ability to see hidden costs of a low quality translation" - wasted time of key personnel, bottlenecked projects and such... I think all translators should repeat this mantra to their clients.
Best regards,
AW
[Edited at 2008-04-01 13:09]
| | | | John Speese
United States
Local time: 13:49
German to English
+ ...
pdf definitely gets my vote too!
And I agree with everyone who said "ask to see the text first" or "read through the text first" before accepting the job. I have ended up doing a great many pdfs that were perfectly legible, easy to format, etc. and I've also ended up turning down a great many that required horrible formatting, were hard to read photo copies, or had (for me anyway) illegible handwriting. And once a regular client of mine even (laughingly) said "I don't blame you, this isn... See more pdf definitely gets my vote too!
And I agree with everyone who said "ask to see the text first" or "read through the text first" before accepting the job. I have ended up doing a great many pdfs that were perfectly legible, easy to format, etc. and I've also ended up turning down a great many that required horrible formatting, were hard to read photo copies, or had (for me anyway) illegible handwriting. And once a regular client of mine even (laughingly) said "I don't blame you, this isn't a very nice job! But I thought I'd try to place it anyway!"
I therefore can't emphasize enough "ask to see the text first" or "read throught the text first" before taking any job!! ▲ Collapse
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...As in "We are Expecting a job to come in on Monday, will you be available"? Usually, the PM also guesses (and secretly hopes not to be lying) that it's straightforward, short, etc.
And don't you just know that the job never comes, or at least not until midweek, and by then it's Urgent. Oh and of course it's twice the size they... See more ...As in "We are Expecting a job to come in on Monday, will you be available"? Usually, the PM also guesses (and secretly hopes not to be lying) that it's straightforward, short, etc.
And don't you just know that the job never comes, or at least not until midweek, and by then it's Urgent. Oh and of course it's twice the size they said, in an annoying format they didn't mention, and anything but straightforward!
So these days I usually answer that I don't have anything planned right now, but if no text shows up on Monday, I'll take on any other job that comes along. I've had a client send a 16,000 word text ten days after initially hinting that it would come - and expecting me to get on it straight away! Like, deadline a week later or something!
Another gripe is the absence of words that warn you that you are dealing with some Member Of The Public who found your website because they have some stupid text they can't read. They don't realize that taxes (especially in Denmark) make private translation services prohibitively expensive, and they are stupendously ignorant about translation.
I once received almost one million words in ten huge files sent to me out of the blue, with a request for a quote. I said to expect ten people (with degrees) including a coordinator to work for three months. What did they think that might cost? Never heard back.
My favourite was an older man who called about some manual. I just assumed he was from a software company and asked him distractedly to send me the manual so I could have a look. A few days later I received 4 kg of laboriously printed hard copy from the postman (6-700 pages)! I had of course meant for him to email it! It was about some kind of highly specialised CAD tool that no private person needs (and which probably would require special training - on top of an engineering decree - in addition to the manual). I found it in PDF online in about three seconds. Why this guy had the manual to it escapes me. Perhaps he thought it was something else...
So now I always check that callers represent a company very early on in the conversation.
Yours,
Mads G ▲ Collapse
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