| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | What's "really" considered offensive? Thread poster: Björn Vrooman
|
|---|
Hello
As I've just read the post about "spastic" being offensive in the UK, but not the US (in German, it's usually sth. like "spastische Bewegungen"; considered, at the most, mildly offensive and meaning jerking movements, as in "spasmodic jerk"), I'd appreciate any input on the topic of offensive language - especially, since I may no longer be on top of things here. Two examples:
As far as I know, the c*-word is still pretty offensive in the US (maybe, except to all t... See more Hello
As I've just read the post about "spastic" being offensive in the UK, but not the US (in German, it's usually sth. like "spastische Bewegungen"; considered, at the most, mildly offensive and meaning jerking movements, as in "spasmodic jerk"), I'd appreciate any input on the topic of offensive language - especially, since I may no longer be on top of things here. Two examples:
As far as I know, the c*-word is still pretty offensive in the US (maybe, except to all these prep kids), but less so in the UK. One UK dictionary also considers "the elderly" to be an offensive term nowadays.
Let me make myself clear: This is not supposed to be any compilation of offensive words. I simply would like to know if there have been any changes in meaning (pretty) recently regarding terms whose offensive nature may not be that obvious.
Thank you all in advance! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Fabio Descalzi 
Uruguay
Local time: 03:35
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| Björn Vrooman
Local time: 07:35
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Muchas gracias! | Jul 19, 2014 |
Hi Fabio
Thank you very much for the links!
But so that we don't misunderstand each other: Like I said, I was not referring to the obvious cases of vulgar language; rather, I meant something like my two examples above.
Regarding the first example, you have two distinctively different opinions in the UK and US about how vulgar the word is and in regard to the second, newspapers have been using the word for a long time and some people deem it offensive nowad... See more Hi Fabio
Thank you very much for the links!
But so that we don't misunderstand each other: Like I said, I was not referring to the obvious cases of vulgar language; rather, I meant something like my two examples above.
Regarding the first example, you have two distinctively different opinions in the UK and US about how vulgar the word is and in regard to the second, newspapers have been using the word for a long time and some people deem it offensive nowadays. The "deem it offensive nowadays" has also been true for "Black" and "Indian": Both terms, however, are still widely used even in the US. And as far as I know, "Indians" still like to be called that way despite the readily available term of "Native Americans" employed in the sciences.
Best wishes
Björn ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:35
French to English
I think you could get as many opinions as there are translators on what is offensive and what isn't.
"bitch" certainly seems to have undergone a transformation in recent years, I hear it bandied about by youngsters in conversations where my brother and his pals would have said "pal" or "mate", where the father of an ex-boyfriend would have said "John", i.e. to any bloke you might happen to exchange a few words with, in a friendly context without necessarily being friends. However ... See more I think you could get as many opinions as there are translators on what is offensive and what isn't.
"bitch" certainly seems to have undergone a transformation in recent years, I hear it bandied about by youngsters in conversations where my brother and his pals would have said "pal" or "mate", where the father of an ex-boyfriend would have said "John", i.e. to any bloke you might happen to exchange a few words with, in a friendly context without necessarily being friends. However I tried to use it in a translation recently and the proofreader nixed it. I accepted her comment because the client happened to be a person who is totally devoid of a sense of humour, what the French call "psycho-rigide", and which could perhaps be translated as "permanently uptight", but I still thought it could have been appropriate for the context (an advert appealing to hip young athletes).
Watching a few TV series might help bring you back into the loop, like Breaking Bad for example ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| A matter of taste | Jul 20, 2014 |
Probably all of us using Proz know all the swearwords, including the most foul obcenities, in at least two different languages. Using them indiscriminately reveals a lack of taste.
When I grew up it was common knowledge that one didn't use certain expressions in the prescence of the fair sex. However, in our present age of super-inflation the use of swearwords, or bad language as it used to be called, is commonplace.
| | | | Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:35
French to English
+ ...
It also depends a lot on the age of the person/user/reader, and the issue of political correctness in some cases. Considering "the elderly" to be offensive seems daft - I mean, it's all relative.
| | | | Björn Vrooman
Local time: 07:35
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you very much for your replies! | Jul 21, 2014 |
@Texte Style I've always credited Meredith Brooks for making "bitch" fashionable. That was almost two decades ago, though.
@Rachel Fell
The Guardian Style Guide says: elderly people
or older people, not "the elderly"; do not use to describe anyone under 75
Well...seems like they want to ditch the word altogether considering men have an average life expectancy of 74 in Germany and 78 in Britain. Women are a bit better off with 80 and more. But tell me now: Ho... See more @Texte Style I've always credited Meredith Brooks for making "bitch" fashionable. That was almost two decades ago, though.
@Rachel Fell
The Guardian Style Guide says: elderly people
or older people, not "the elderly"; do not use to describe anyone under 75
Well...seems like they want to ditch the word altogether considering men have an average life expectancy of 74 in Germany and 78 in Britain. Women are a bit better off with 80 and more. But tell me now: How many articles including "the elderly" you're going to write during your time as a journalist if you're expected to make "the elderly" refer to an entire age group in which only people of 75 or older are present?
Don't mind the Economist, though. The newspaper has a whole section called
http://www.economist.com/topics/ageing-and-elderly
Considering the following
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1696682/Rising-retirement-ages-in-Europe-compared.html
I'd like to present a petition to the most popular newspapers asking them to refrain from using the word "retirement" and to say "on leave" instead.
Who's with me? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:35
Hebrew to English
| The Guardian....have a lot to answer for | Jul 21, 2014 |
Björn Starke wrote:
@Rachel Fell
The Guardian Style Guide says: elderly people
or older people, not "the elderly"; do not use to describe anyone under 75
The Guardian find a lot of things offensive.
You'll notice they never refer to "black" people, but rather "people of colo(u)r". However, outside of the rather militant and numerically insignificant "social justice" Twitterati people have no problem using the word "black" and don't find it offensive in the slightest. (And I simply do not understand how "elderly people" is in any way 'better' than "the elderly").
@Texte Style I've always credited Meredith Brooks for making "bitch" fashionable. That was almost two decades ago, though.
I love(d) that song.
[Edited at 2014-07-21 06:58 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 07:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
Rachel Fell wrote:
It also depends a lot on the age of the person/user/reader, and the issue of political correctness in some cases. Considering "the elderly" to be offensive seems daft - I mean, it's all relative.
As a proper dafty, I find this cavalier use of "daft" to describe the merely niminy-piminy offends me...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/niminy-piminy
| | | |
The phrase "socially acceptable" is so broad in scope as to be practically useless. Any possible attempt to concretely define it will inevitably run into the problem of defining "society," which is difficult if not impossible.
What is acceptable in one segment of a population may be completely taboo in another, even within the same country. Even within the same city, or the same race, or the same age group. All a person can really say with certainty is what is acceptable to his o... See more The phrase "socially acceptable" is so broad in scope as to be practically useless. Any possible attempt to concretely define it will inevitably run into the problem of defining "society," which is difficult if not impossible.
What is acceptable in one segment of a population may be completely taboo in another, even within the same country. Even within the same city, or the same race, or the same age group. All a person can really say with certainty is what is acceptable to his or her world view, which is necessarily unique and holds very little meaning to the outside world.
Of course some generalizations can be made of a society, and they can be useful in their own right, but there will always be outliers on both ends of the spectrum, as evidenced by the heated debates arising from things like Miley Cyrus twerking or the enforcement of Sharia law.
So, asking the question "What exactly is offensive to you?" to ten different people living in the same "society" will probably get you ten fairly different answers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 07:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
|
The word "disability" referring to whatever kind of disability, is no longer being used but physically challenged and such like, depending on the "disability". By the way, I'm tall, so that makes me vertically challenged. I'm with you, seeing life expectancy and also working ages have been raised. People in many countries are now working till 65 and other countries need to raise the working age, especially in Europe, seeing the birth rate is so low
[Edited at 2014-07-21 07:45 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Björn Vrooman
Local time: 07:35
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks again for the replies! | Jul 21, 2014 |
@Ty Kendall
I remember one of my English teachers (and yes, I'd stick with the geographically specified English in that case) telling us about her experience of ordering "black coffee" in the US. She ended up with an obnoxius stare-down by the African-American waitperson. I guess that waitperson would trash the following place if given... See more @Ty Kendall
I remember one of my English teachers (and yes, I'd stick with the geographically specified English in that case) telling us about her experience of ordering "black coffee" in the US. She ended up with an obnoxius stare-down by the African-American waitperson. I guess that waitperson would trash the following place if given the opportunity: http://blackcoffeegallery.com.mx/bcg/
And I think you're on to something regarding "the elderly". The APA Style Manual gives the same explanation about why to add "people" here, but I'm not convinced: "people" also refers to a group, so you're not ending up with a term that, according to APA, doesn't make "people lose their individuality". They're still just "people", after all.
@Orrin Cummins
Point well taken. Still, I am starting to get a bit uneasy about the attempts at "hyper-correctness". I'm sure you could agree that some replacement words for terms deemed offensive are not that much better.
After all these years, I still cringe whenever I hear, see, or read "Caucasian". No offense to the people living in Caucasia, but I am not and never will be Caucasian.
M-W also felt the need to point out that an African-American is an American who has African and especially black African ancestors. Maybe Germans lacking much of a colonial past just don't have what it takes to discuss skin colors.
@neilmac: Second article got me thinking. Is it just me or would "oxt" sound like I just got castrated?
@Josephine Cassar Thank you especially for the "vertically challenged". Almost forgot about it. Gotta keep that in mind. The Oxford Dictionary, however, says:
Despite the serious intention the term rapidly became stalled by uses whose intention was to make fun of the attempts at euphemism and whose tone was usually clearly ironic: examples include cerebrally challenged, conversationally challenged, and follicularly challenged.
You also have "differently abled" nowadays. Considering that, e.g., blind people's other senses take over (as far as I know, heightened sense of smell etc.) that may make for a better euphemism than the above. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
To answer your question briefly: Yes, there have have been changes and no, there is no effective way of creating a general catalogue of those changes.
And yes, if you ask any questions about this topic, you will inevitably offend people who are easily offended by certain terms and by other people who are easily offended at others' finding certain terms offensive.
The rule with "elderly", "disabled" etc. has to do with not mentioning this fact if it is not relevant (localization iss... See more To answer your question briefly: Yes, there have have been changes and no, there is no effective way of creating a general catalogue of those changes.
And yes, if you ask any questions about this topic, you will inevitably offend people who are easily offended by certain terms and by other people who are easily offended at others' finding certain terms offensive.
The rule with "elderly", "disabled" etc. has to do with not mentioning this fact if it is not relevant (localization issue) and not linguistically reducing the person to their status (reconverting these adjectives used as nouns back to adjectives). I don't really care about that one way or the other, but at least those are pretty clear and reasonable guidelines.
Personally, as a father of two daughters and no sons, I find the phrase "fair sex" borderline imbecilic, particularly in the context of my children never being permitted to swear in the company of anyone except for men (including myself) who will awkwardly be forbidden from swearing back at them. Except when driving, I make very strict efforts not to swear in front of my children, but I shudder at the prospect of having to keep that up until I die. I guess my parents did a bad job of raising me. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Björn Vrooman
Local time: 07:35
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | ...or the fairer one...or maybe the "fairier"? | Jul 21, 2014 |
@Michael Long time no see: Glad you're still around (as XING seems to be going down the drain...)
Have you ever heard of "$#*! My Dad Says"?
Maybe they just need to turn it into "$#*! My Mom Says" to make you feel more comfortable. Or maybe I just used to know too many women who didn't care about such things. After all, if you wanna be "treated equally", shouldn't you be making no exceptions in any case?
[Edited at 2014-07-21 09:09 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » What's "really" considered offensive? | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
