| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Record number of disagrees in one day Thread poster: Fred Neild (X)
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Fred Neild (X) 
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | Spanish is not subjective | Dec 29, 2005 |
sarahl wrote:
The person we're talking about is listing Spanish as a target language in his profile. Clearly, he thinks he's proficient enough to translate *into* Spanish.
I know, and this makes it even worst.
And his mistakes and Spanish language are not subjective.
If you have the patience to go further back you will see that he also provides negligent answers in Es-En (also with disagrees from other colleagues, of course).
[Edited at 2005-12-29 21:11]
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 17:40
English to French
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| We may be opening quite a can of worms here... | Dec 29, 2005 |
The site does not check self-reported proficiency, which makes the rule unenforceable in this case.
As for going back to see more mistakes in Es-En, I'll have to take your word for it porque no entendo espanol.
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 20:40
sarahl wrote: Rosa Maria, Yes, staying away from language pairs where you don't belong is one of the rules. However, this can be subjective. The person we're talking about is listing Spanish as a target language in his profile. Clearly, he thinks he's proficient enough to translate *into* Spanish. While I fully agree with you guys in this specific case, the rule can be hard to enforce.  [Edited at 2005-12-29 21:00]
The rule might be difficult to enforce, but all we (or I) are asking for is that a moderator contact him in private to remind him of the rule, and tell him that he "seems" not to have the proficiency required to answer questions in the EN-SP pairs, which has made his Proz peers upset to the point of starting a thread on the subjetc in the forums (he might not even be aware of it!). Maybe he will then "understand" that he needs to be more careful in his answers or just abstain from providing answers that are not accurate, since the rain of disagrees he has received from colleagues does not seem to be able to convey this message to him.
[Edited at 2005-12-29 21:35]
| | | | Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
since the rain of disagrees
I would say tsunami, haha.
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| in Romanian please | Dec 29, 2005 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
that a moderator contact him in private to remind him of the rule, and tell him that he "seems" not to have the proficiency required to answer questions in the EN-SP pairs, which has made his Proz peers upset to the point of starting a thread on the subjetc in the forums (he might not even be aware of it!). Maybe he will then "understand" that he needs to be more careful in his answers or just abstain from providing answers that are not accurate, since the rain of disagrees he has received from colleagues does not seem to be able to convey this message to him.
TBH, I think he doesn't have the slightest understanding of Spanish, so any moderator contacting him should better do it in Romanian (please!) Most answers are not even of machine translation quality!
hmmm...off to try to grab a few points answering some questions in Swahili
| | | | | even in Romanian | Dec 30, 2005 |
His answers in the English>Romanian pair seem to lack the same, that is why I support Fred's idea.
| | | | | a bit of automation would help | Dec 30, 2005 |
Suggestions:
1. Bot could prevent asker from giving points to an answer having two or more disagrees, and inform asker and answerer. Certain answerers will stop their activity sooner, if there is nothing to gain. Abuses or personal quarrels can always be referred to moderators.
2. To help askers, show on top of each answer "Agrees: X - Neutral: Y - Disagrees: Z" instead of "net agrees"
my 2 cents
Pablo
| | | | Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
English to Romanian
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| How often does this happen? | Dec 30, 2005 |
Giving ungrammatical and/or illogical answers to tens of questions per day is not something common on Proz, I think. This is rather an exception. I wonder if it would worth the effort to create an automatic system to stop a guy or two. If somebody has an inappropriate behavior (and the behavior Fred described is certainly inappropriate, in my opinion), a moderator should be able to enforce the relevant rule.
Pablo Grosschmid wrote:
Suggestions:
1. Bot could prevent asker from giving points to an answer having two or more disagrees, and inform asker and answerer. Certain answerers will stop their activity sooner, if there is nothing to gain.
We should not forget that agrees and disagrees are sometimes very subjective. Moreover, preventing the asker from giving points to a particular answer would mean to question his/her ability to choose the right answer. I agree that sometimes wrong answers are selected, but I would still leave the asker the right to select the answer that he/she considers the most helpful.
[Edited at 2005-12-30 09:03]
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Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Fank you all for your kontribuchions, ezpecialli the colligues from Romania (showing this guy doezn't reprezent you), could be a 10-year old for all i now, just having fun with as.
I anderstand if moderators can't do anifing, it may be difikult to prove if somobodi is proficient or not in a sertain pair.
Zizons Gritings to all of you!
Thred
| | | | Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | Early drinking | Dec 30, 2005 |
Now we have this German translator in en-es and es-en pairs also having fun. Not so much as our former colleague, of course (he is unbeatable, 500 NodoeZ points for him).
Seems some translators have started drinking early, maybe it is the time zones and it is already New Year in Germany?
I suppose it is my fault for working today. I will just return to KudoZ next year and hope this was only a horrible nightmare.
Sweet dreams
Fred
| | | | | Subjective agrees/disagrees? | Dec 30, 2005 |
Mihai Badea wrote:
We should not forget that agrees and disagrees are sometimes very subjective. Moreover, preventing the asker from giving points to a particular answer would mean to question his/her ability to choose the right answer. I agree that sometimes wrong answers are selected, but I would still leave the asker the right to select the answer that he/she considers the most helpful.
[Edited at 2005-12-30 09:03]
I have not seen many complaints about indiscriminate, subjective agrees, even though no justification has to be added to an 'agree', but subjective disagrees are almost impossible to make-a disagree must be accompanied by a reason. So although there are some who take offence at or feel threatened by disagrees, the idea of disagrees being handed out subjectively is really not on.
And it must be stressed that Asker picks the answer 'he/she finds most helpful' and that's all. Nothing to do with the answer being right or wrong. It's up to others to note any blunders and make sure that the glossary doesn't pass them on to unsuspecting translators doing research later on. Some "chosen" answers turn out to be really misleading and way off the mark. But that is Asker's right.
[Edited at 2005-12-30 16:04]
| | | | Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
English to Romanian
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| Subjective agrees/disagrees | Dec 30, 2005 |
writeaway wrote:
I have not seen many complaints about indiscriminate, subjective agrees, even though no justification has to be added to an 'agree', but subjective disagrees are almost impossible to make-a disagree must be accompanied by a reason.
I haven’t seen many subjective agrees/disagrees either, however sometimes this does happen (and the reason does not need to be necessarily a valid one; a simple "I don’t think so" would be easily accepted by the system"). But, I think this may depend on the language pair involved. For instance, I’ve seen such cases in my working language pairs. When necessary, I informed the relevant moderator of the situation.
I think we both agree that it is the asker’s right to grant the points to whatever answer he/she likes (the answer he/she finds most helpful). Therefore, no need to prevent him/her from granting the points to an answer that received several disagrees.
[Edited at 2005-12-30 18:36]
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Fred Neild wrote:
Fank you all for your kontribuchions, ezpecialli the colligues from Romania (showing this guy doezn't reprezent you), could be a 10-year old for all i now, just having fun with as.
I anderstand if moderators can't do anifing, it may be difikult to prove if somobodi is proficient or not in a sertain pair.
Zizons Gritings to all of you!
Thred
Zánkiú, Fred. Hapee nu yarr 4 U 2!
Walter
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 20:40
Spanish to English
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| I'm with Henry | Dec 31, 2005 |
I happened upon this thread, and while I understand the problem and the frustration, I think much too much is being made of it. Make a point of disagreeing with the poor answers and I believe, as Henry Hinds does, that the behavior will stop. If, after several weeks or so, it does not, then *that* would be the time for a moderator to intervene and, if it goes on after that, to initiate excommunication proceedings.
In the meantime, there is no need to get one's dander up about it a... See more I happened upon this thread, and while I understand the problem and the frustration, I think much too much is being made of it. Make a point of disagreeing with the poor answers and I believe, as Henry Hinds does, that the behavior will stop. If, after several weeks or so, it does not, then *that* would be the time for a moderator to intervene and, if it goes on after that, to initiate excommunication proceedings.
In the meantime, there is no need to get one's dander up about it and, let's face it--it is kind of funny.
I do have to say that I find it alarming to hear that the gentleman in question seems not to even have a rudimentary command of his native tongue. This raises the question of whether there might be a place for functional illiterates on proz.com. Perhaps this topic could provide fodder for another thread or too, and we can all weigh in on the issue.
Happy New Year to all. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 20:40
English to Spanish
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| Lost in translation | Dec 31, 2005 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
In the meantime, there is no need to get one's dander up about it and, let's face it--it is kind of funny.
I would say it's kind of sad. But then again, the site is open to everyone, not just language professionals, so it shouldn't be surprising.
I do have to say that I find it alarming to hear that the gentleman in question seems not to even have a rudimentary command of his native tongue.
My guess is that his native language is English, with only a smidgen of both Spanish and Romanian thrown in, compounded by his eagerness to answer first, plus his apparent lack of good reference material/research skills.
--
Dyran
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