Working remotely from Spain (but as UK tax-resident) Thread poster: Biz_84
| Biz_84 Local time: 07:25 Spanish to English + ...
Hi there, I'm a UK citizen, but am looking to join my partner in Spain (now more difficult since Brexit, since you require a visa). I've come across the non-lucrative visa, which allows remote work from another country whilst you live in Spain, and just wondered whether anyone was doing any freelance translation (perhaps from a different country than the UK) using this visa? Many thanks, Andrew | | | Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 07:25 Member (2007) English + ...
Biz_84 wrote: I'm a UK citizen, but am looking to join my partner in Spain (now more difficult since Brexit, since you require a visa). What nationality is your partner? If they are European, or British with residency in Spain before the end of 2020, things are simpler. | | | I think I am, but... | Mar 7, 2021 |
I must preface this answer by pointing out that although I moved from the UK to Spain last year and am freelancing there while trading through a UK limited company, I'm not entirely sure which kind of document you're talking about! Hence "think" in the title of my post. And in case you're wondering why my profile says I'm in the UK, I'm planning to go back to the UK later this year if I can for at least 2-3 months and am undecided as to what my next move will be after that (not necessarily Spain... See more I must preface this answer by pointing out that although I moved from the UK to Spain last year and am freelancing there while trading through a UK limited company, I'm not entirely sure which kind of document you're talking about! Hence "think" in the title of my post. And in case you're wondering why my profile says I'm in the UK, I'm planning to go back to the UK later this year if I can for at least 2-3 months and am undecided as to what my next move will be after that (not necessarily Spain), so I haven't made my move to Spain official here on ProZ yet. I recently went through the process of applying for what is generally termed residencia here. The thing is, I've never heard anyone call it a visa, and I also know that the rules have changed recently for UK citizens, hence my uncertainty. My application category was the same as yours - "non-lucrative", which I understand to mean "not making money (from any Spanish source)". I eventually got residency last month after months of trying, because getting an appointment at the local police station was - and may well still be - like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. You have to book one through a website, and while I was trying to get one, the authorities made it all but impossible to do that. Appointments were unavailable about 99.9% of the time, but on extraordinarily rare occasions, a tiny number would be released, without warning! And they would get snapped up in a flash. So what you had to do was check the website constantly, entering your details over and over, and cross your fingers. It got a teensy bit wearing after the first thousand unsuccessful attempts... plus you have to have a Spanish phone number to book an appointment, which I don't. The appointments website doesn't accept non-Spanish numbers, so I had ask a Spanish abogada for permission to use hers. They send a code to the mobile phone which has to be entered on the website within five minutes, otherwise you lose the appointment. "Palaver" doesn't even come close... In the end, by some miracle, the abogada happened to check the website herself one morning and managed to get me an appointment. It was like winning the lottery, only the odds were probably a lot longer! I had two days in which to get more up-to-date documents to present at the cop shop, which was like performing the Twelve Labours of Hercules. Not a process I would want to go through ever again, but I got it done. However, what I have omitted to mention so far is that my situation is a bit different from yours, in that I got my residency card - officially titled certificado de registro de ciudadano de la Unión - by applying as an Irish citizen, as I hold dual Irish and UK citizenship. I did look into the requirements for UK citizens, though. I gather they are now more onerous as your income has to be higher than before, I can't remember the exact figure but I dare say you'll already have looked it up yourself(?) ▲ Collapse | | | William Bowley United Kingdom Local time: 07:25 Spanish to English + ... Are you sure? | Mar 7, 2021 |
I've also been looking into this, but the essential part of the non-lucrative visa (it's in the name) is that you can't work using it. Saying that, there's very little quality information out there on this and I've even seen one article stating you can work, and then in the very next paragraph that you can't work! Hopefully if there are any Spanish tax experts on here they can help.
[Edited at 2021-03-08 00:47 GMT] | |
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Biz_84 Local time: 07:25 Spanish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your replies, both. My situation is that my partner is Spanish, so we could go down the pareja de hecho (stable partner) route and get residency off the back of that. The only thing is that would take months (without earning anything) and, as I'm currently in the UK, I couldn't start the application until I get there (whenever that will be)! I'm just wondering whether it makes sense to set up as freelance here and then transfer, and whether it limits me in any way with l... See more Thanks for your replies, both. My situation is that my partner is Spanish, so we could go down the pareja de hecho (stable partner) route and get residency off the back of that. The only thing is that would take months (without earning anything) and, as I'm currently in the UK, I couldn't start the application until I get there (whenever that will be)! I'm just wondering whether it makes sense to set up as freelance here and then transfer, and whether it limits me in any way with local clients or imposes onerous tax responsibilities in either country. My plan is to stay in Spain permanently, in contrast to yours Peter. It seems the only pre-requisites are proof you can support yourself (26,000 euros), and that's pretty much it. ▲ Collapse | | | Jo Macdonald Spain Local time: 08:25 Italian to English + ... Talk to a Spanish accountant | Mar 8, 2021 |
If you're a permanent resident in Spain and working as a professional (autonomo) you will pay tax in Spain. It may be OK to set up a company in another country (the UK for example) and work for that company; that company pays tax in the country it is established in, and you will pay tax on the wages the company pays you in the country you are a tax resident in. Spain has a really simple and fair taxation system once you get the initial paperwork done. Social security is ... See more If you're a permanent resident in Spain and working as a professional (autonomo) you will pay tax in Spain. It may be OK to set up a company in another country (the UK for example) and work for that company; that company pays tax in the country it is established in, and you will pay tax on the wages the company pays you in the country you are a tax resident in. Spain has a really simple and fair taxation system once you get the initial paperwork done. Social security is about €300/month, income tax is 21%. That's about it. ▲ Collapse | | | A taxing decision | Mar 8, 2021 |
Biz_84 wrote: I'm just wondering whether it makes sense to set up as freelance here and then transfer, and whether it limits me in any way with local clients or imposes onerous tax responsibilities in either country. My understanding of the way my particular situation works in terms of tax - which I gained by hiring a tax accountant here in Andalucia to look at my figures for last year and give me a rundown of how much tax I could expect to pay in Spain if I become tax-resident here by spending more than 183 days in Spain in any tax year between 1 Jan and 31 Dec - is that the Spanish authorities look at your earnings from your UK business, apply the Spanish personal income tax rate to it (including a regional component which varies according to where you live), and then knock off the tax you have already paid in the UK as per the Spain-UK double taxation treaty, though I think there might be some exclusions there. In my case, it means the Spanish authorities would take something like 15% of my income off the top (ouch!) And when I say income, I mean the dividend and wages I draw from my company, plus interest on savings. This is one reason why I'm undecided as to whether I will stay long enough this year to become a Spanish tax resident! If I do, I'll be counting the cost, and the pennies. But hey, at least the weather's nice...
[Edited at 2021-03-08 11:42 GMT] | | | Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 07:25 Member (2007) English + ... No possibility of marriage? | Mar 8, 2021 |
Biz_84 wrote: My situation is that my partner is Spanish, so we could go down the pareja de hecho (stable partner) route and get residency off the back of that. The only thing is that would take months (without earning anything) and, as I'm currently in the UK, I couldn't start the application until I get there (whenever that will be)! If there's any chance of you getting married while still in the UK, that would simplify things massively. It really would make a major difference. You would then have a perfect right to go and live AND work in Spain. There would be no question of needing any visa or proving you have access to EUR 26k. You'd just arrive, set up as autónomo and then apply for residency -- both relatively simple administrative procedures that only have to be done once by the recognised partner of a Spanish citizen. I'm just wondering whether it makes sense to set up as freelance here and then transfer, and whether it limits me in any way with local clients or imposes onerous tax responsibilities in either country. You can't transfer freelance registration between countries, and I don't think you can be registered as freelance in a country where you aren't fiscally resident, not in the long term anyway. This is because freelancers are taxed as physical persons, so fiscal and physical residence generally have to match. I don't think you can hope to live in Spain on a permanent basis and yet be taxed in the UK, anyway. For the first five years of residency you're obliged to spend a minimum of 6 months in the country. OTOH, if you spend 183 days in Spain you're normally automatically liable for tax here, especially if your partner lives here too (there are grey areas for off-shore and similar workers). Realistically, anyone who lives here has to declare their worldwide income here. There are ways to lessen the tax load. I believe you can set up a UK limited company and pay UK corporation tax and UK income tax on your salary. But then you'd have to pay UK national insurance too and I believe dividends would still be taxable over here. You'd certainly need expert advice if you go that route. One thing I do know is that there can certainly be no question of the company earning any of its money in Spain if you're on an NLV -- so no local clients allowed. My plan is to stay in Spain permanently, in contrast to yours Peter. It seems the only pre-requisites are proof you can support yourself (26,000 euros), and that's pretty much it. If you get an NLV, you'll need to prove access to EUR 26k in years 1, 2 and 4. In years 2 and 4 you apply for a 2-year visa. Then in year 5 you can apply for permanent residency, as long as you've spent enough time in the country each year. You also need to have private comprehensive medical insurance (the equivalent of state health cover, e.g. no exclusions). You need to obtain police and health certificates. One other consequence of Brexit that may even apply to your Spanish partner is that UK driving licences can't now be exchanged for Spanish ones, nor can you continue to use them here. In the first six months of residency you will need to take both theory and practical tests here. But negotiations are ongoing so a better outcome may eventually result. | |
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Biz_84 Local time: 07:25 Spanish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER Thank you taking the time to reply.. | Mar 17, 2021 |
..and apologies for the lateness of mine. Sheila, is that definitely true wrt marrying over here? I find it so difficult to access good-quality information on this topic, but that would definitely make things easier! I got m... See more ..and apologies for the lateness of mine. Sheila, is that definitely true wrt marrying over here? I find it so difficult to access good-quality information on this topic, but that would definitely make things easier! I got my info on the NLV from: https://balcellsgroup.com/work-remotely-from-spain/#The_Main_Steps_to_Work_Remotely_from_Spain_as_a_Digital_Nomad Thanks again! ▲ Collapse | | | Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 07:25 Member (2007) English + ... The spouse of an EU citizen has rights | Mar 17, 2021 |
Biz_84 wrote: Sheila, is that definitely true wrt marrying over here? I find it so difficult to access good-quality information on this topic, but that would definitely make things easier! Google for the rights of the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen. There are some restrictions, e.g. you have to travel together for full freedom of movement. You also have to try to stay together for five years, until you get permanent residency, or else you can find things get precarious. But you can work from day one and no visa needed. | | | Biz_84 Local time: 07:25 Spanish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER Many thanks, Sheila.. | Mar 18, 2021 |
I will investigate this. Unfortunately, we're not able to see each other until who knows when but it sounds like it could work.. | | | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Working remotely from Spain (but as UK tax-resident) Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
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