Establecerse como autonomo en España Thread poster: Nicolas Clochez
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Hi,
Sorry but my Spanish is still a bit bad so I'll ask in English. I'm currently working as a freelance translator in France but I plan to go live in Spain. Problem is, I have no knowledge whatsoever of the freelance system in Spain. Could anyone be so kind as to explain briefly to me how it works?
For example, with my status in France ("auto-entrepreneur"), I have to pay 23,3% of my revenue each quarter, plus the income tax every year. The paperwork is extemely simpl... See more Hi,
Sorry but my Spanish is still a bit bad so I'll ask in English. I'm currently working as a freelance translator in France but I plan to go live in Spain. Problem is, I have no knowledge whatsoever of the freelance system in Spain. Could anyone be so kind as to explain briefly to me how it works?
For example, with my status in France ("auto-entrepreneur"), I have to pay 23,3% of my revenue each quarter, plus the income tax every year. The paperwork is extemely simple with this status, I basically subscribed online and everything was done. I sign in the "revenue-paying portal" every end of quarter and state how much I earned, the site does the rest and takes the money on my bank account.
How would it be in Spain?
Thanks in advance
Nicolas ▲ Collapse
| | | | Émilie Diaz
France
Local time: 22:09
Spanish to French
+ ...
Bonjour Nicolas, moi je vais te répondre en français !
En Espagne, simplement :
- tu paies tous les mois environ 260 € qui correspondent aux cotisations sociales.
- sur chaque facture émise tu rajoutes 21 % de TVA (que tu rendras à chaque trimestre évidemment).
- puis sur cette même facture tu soustraits 21 % d'impôt (IRPF en espagnol).
- enfin tu fais ta déclaration annuelle et... See more Bonjour Nicolas, moi je vais te répondre en français !
En Espagne, simplement :
- tu paies tous les mois environ 260 € qui correspondent aux cotisations sociales.
- sur chaque facture émise tu rajoutes 21 % de TVA (que tu rendras à chaque trimestre évidemment).
- puis sur cette même facture tu soustraits 21 % d'impôt (IRPF en espagnol).
- enfin tu fais ta déclaration annuelle et selon le résultat tu auras à payer des impôts ou non.
À noter qu'au moment de faire la déclaration de la TVA trimestrielle tu peux décompter tes frais (je crois que le statut auto entrepreneur ne l'autorise pas).
D'autres collègues t'éclaireront aussi certainement mais d'après ces informations, penses-tu qu'il est plus "rentable" d'être autonome en Espagne qu'en France, je suis intéressée de savoir ? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicolas Clochez 
France
Local time: 22:09
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Salut Émilie !
Alors, si je comprends bien, en admettant qu'au premier trimestre j'ai émis une seule facture de 1000 euros chaque mois, ça voudrait dire qu'à la fin du trimestre je devrai payer :
210 euros * 3 = 630 euros d'IVA
Plus 260 euros de cotisations chaque mois = 780 euros
Plus 21% d'IRPF = 630 euros d'IRPF
Pour un total de 2040 euros ? J'ai dû rater quelque chose, ça me paraît anormalement élevé...non ?
... See more Salut Émilie !
Alors, si je comprends bien, en admettant qu'au premier trimestre j'ai émis une seule facture de 1000 euros chaque mois, ça voudrait dire qu'à la fin du trimestre je devrai payer :
210 euros * 3 = 630 euros d'IVA
Plus 260 euros de cotisations chaque mois = 780 euros
Plus 21% d'IRPF = 630 euros d'IRPF
Pour un total de 2040 euros ? J'ai dû rater quelque chose, ça me paraît anormalement élevé...non ?
Aussi, je ne travaille pas avec des agences espagnoles mais françaises et italiennes, donc en théorie je devrais être exempté d'IVA non ?
Si c'est tel que je l'ai calculé, alors c'est plsu rentable en france avec le statut d'auto-entrepreneur, qui est cependant limité à 32000 euros par an si je me souviens bien. Le pourcentage de 23,3% par trimestre inclut l'impôt et les cotisations sociales... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 21:09
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
I did exactly the same in May 2012, Nicolas. Went from an uncomplicated and relatively cheap status of AE to the rather complicated and very expensive life of an autonomo. But being on Fuerteventura, where there's no VAT, it is perhaps a little simpler. What I'm sure of is that, like me, you'll need someone to help you. I pay my asesor a bit shy of 40€ a month for doing rather little, I feel, but he keeps me legal (I hope!).
But VAT isn't actually something you pay out of your own... See more I did exactly the same in May 2012, Nicolas. Went from an uncomplicated and relatively cheap status of AE to the rather complicated and very expensive life of an autonomo. But being on Fuerteventura, where there's no VAT, it is perhaps a little simpler. What I'm sure of is that, like me, you'll need someone to help you. I pay my asesor a bit shy of 40€ a month for doing rather little, I feel, but he keeps me legal (I hope!).
But VAT isn't actually something you pay out of your own pocket, is it? Whatever you and/or your client pays, it all gets balanced back to zero in the long run - just keeps a few thousand people in jobs. And IRPF is simply a way of paying your income tax in advance - instead of paying 21% of the invoice to you, your Spanish client will pay that to the government. If most of your income is from Spanish businesses then you don't pay any other tax until year end when they work out what you or they are owed. But if, like me, your income is from elsewhere then there's no IRPF involved and you pay around 20% every quarter in tax (my asesor just takes my invoice and expenses details and tells me how much is going to be taken). Then there's the same balancing at year end. I got a hefty chunk back last year , but they kept it for over 9 months after they calculated it .
A good rule of thumb would be 260-300€ per month social security (depending on whether you go for incapacity etc cover); plus around 20% of income after expenses.
Don't come over here to live if you're looking for an easier or more lucrative life. I thought France had the most complicated bureaucracy on the planet - now I know how wrong I was! ▲ Collapse
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Nicolas Clochez
France
Local time: 22:09
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Hi Sheila,
Yes, since I never worked with VAT I'm a bit of a stranger on the topic, sorry if I made a mistake. I don't really get what you said about IRPF though : "But if, like me, your income is from elsewhere then there's no IRPF involved and you pay around 20% every quarter in tax". I thought it was the IVA you didn't have to "pay" (or well, to put on the invoice) when working with societies abroad? Are you exonerated from IRPF if you only deal with translation agencies outside ... See more Hi Sheila,
Yes, since I never worked with VAT I'm a bit of a stranger on the topic, sorry if I made a mistake. I don't really get what you said about IRPF though : "But if, like me, your income is from elsewhere then there's no IRPF involved and you pay around 20% every quarter in tax". I thought it was the IVA you didn't have to "pay" (or well, to put on the invoice) when working with societies abroad? Are you exonerated from IRPF if you only deal with translation agencies outside of Spain (but in the EU?)? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 21:09
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| IRPF isn't a tax | Apr 28, 2014 |
It's prepayment of the tax - income tax. They just want to get their hands on it asap. They can't expect foreign clients to play ball though. They get it in the end unless you do a runner.
| | | | | Bonus pour les "autónomos" espagnols | Apr 29, 2014 |
Emilie Diaz wrote:
En Espagne, simplement :
- tu paies tous les mois environ 260 € qui correspondent aux cotisations sociales.
- sur chaque facture émise tu rajoutes 21 % de TVA (que tu rendras à chaque trimestre évidemment).
- puis sur cette même facture tu soustraits 21 % d'impôt (IRPF en espagnol).
- enfin tu fais ta déclaration annuelle et selon le résultat tu auras à payer des impôts ou non.
À noter qu'au moment de faire la déclaration de la TVA trimestrielle tu peux décompter tes frais (je crois que le statut auto entrepreneur ne l'autorise pas).
Bonjour, Nicolas.
Il y a maintenant en Espagne un bonus de pour les nouveaux "autónomos": les six premiers mois, si tu n'a jamais bénéficié de ce genre de bonus, tu ne paies que 50 euros/mois; puis 150 euros/mois je crois pendant 6 mois, jusqu'à atteindre 250 euros/mois.
Quant à moi, je ne soustrais que 9% pour le IRPF (c'est mon conseiller fiscal qui l'a déterminé)
J'espère que ça aidera!
| | | | Nicolas Clochez
France
Local time: 22:09
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Merci à tous ! Avec ceci en main, je vais voir ce que je peux faire. Je suppose qu'il faut que je prenne rendez-vous à l'Hacienda pour la suite des démarches, ou il y a un autre organisme type URSSAF à qui s'adresser ?
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| Sana rendez-vous | Apr 29, 2014 |
NClochez wrote:
Merci à tous ! Avec ceci en main, je vais voir ce que je peux faire. Je suppose qu'il faut que je prenne rendez-vous à l'Hacienda pour la suite des démarches, ou il y a un autre organisme type URSSAF à qui s'adresser ?
Nicolas, au moins chez moi, il n'est pas besoin de prendre rendez-vous. Seulement il faut avoir les formulaires au préalable. Il existe un site web pour les télécharger.
https://sede.seg-social.gob.es/Sede_1/ServiciosenLinea/EmpresasyProfesionales/index.htm?C1=1003&C2=2025
Salutations.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:09
Spanish to English
+ ...
Susana E. Cano Méndez wrote:
Quant à moi, je ne soustrais que 9% pour le IRPF (c'est mon conseiller fiscal qui l'a déterminé)
J'espère que ça aidera!
No soy matemático, pero creo que si solo imputas el 9&% de IRPF, al final del año tendrás que pagar la diferencia a Hacienda. Yo facturo el IRPF a mis clientes al 21% y Hacienda me suele devolver algo al final del año...
Translation:
I'm not a mathematician, but I think if you only impute 9% income tax, at the end of the year you will have to pay the difference to Hacienda. I bill my customers personal income tax at 21% and Hacienda usually gives me something back at the end of the year...)
A propósito, si vais a desgravar gastos del IVA trimestral, hay que guardar todas las facturas correspondientes a los gastos (los recibos o "tickets" no valen, deben ser facturas). El año pasado tuve que devolverles una suma importante y pagar alguna multa porque no encontraba mis facturas de los ultimos 3 años...
Translation:
By the way, if you plan to deduct expenses from quarterly VAT, you must keep all invoices for expenses (receipts or "tickets" are not accepted, they must be invoices). Last year I had to give back a large sum and pay a fine after not finding my invoices for the last three years...
[Edited at 2014-04-29 12:39 GMT]
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 22:09
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Depends on what you earn Neil... | Jul 10, 2014 |
You can pay a retention of 9% IRPF on your bills to Spanish clients for the first 3 years of being an autonomo (the remainder of the first year you register + 2 more full years).
Last year I earned healthily over the Spanish national average (retaining just 9% IRPF as I was in my third year as a registered autonomo) and I only had to pay IRPF more or less on what I had earnt outside Spain throughout 2013 (i.e., earnings for which my clients hadn't retained the IRPF for the Spanish h... See more You can pay a retention of 9% IRPF on your bills to Spanish clients for the first 3 years of being an autonomo (the remainder of the first year you register + 2 more full years).
Last year I earned healthily over the Spanish national average (retaining just 9% IRPF as I was in my third year as a registered autonomo) and I only had to pay IRPF more or less on what I had earnt outside Spain throughout 2013 (i.e., earnings for which my clients hadn't retained the IRPF for the Spanish hacienda). There a few factors involved, such as family situation, etc.
@ Shiela, if you spend a day or two "metido en ello" you can save yourself €40 / month. I've done all my accounts from the start, made a few mistakes but nothing that couldn't be rectified - as you say we have extremely simple accounts (apart from providing services to various countries). This year I used an asesor for the Dec. de la Renta because I had bought a house and wanted to reduce my IRPF as much as possible, as it was more complicated I thought I'd get help. (Unfortunately due to a change in the law in 2012 I lost out on ~ €9,000 by just 2 months!! :@( So I paid the asesor for confirming that I had been doing my accounts correctly for the last few years.) Anyway, she said that I understood the situation and had my accounts in much better order than most of her Spanish clients. The hacienda's website has improved recently, IMO, there is now helpful information to guide you through the 'modelos', some parts are in English, everything can be carried out over the internet with an e-certificate so you don't even need to visit them or your bank.
As I control my accounts I can see when it actually makes more financial sense to buy that 'super-comfortable (but expensive) office chair, larger monitor, overly expensive dictionary, etc.' which you long for, rather than not buy it! For example, in December I can estimate that I may have to pay €1,000 in next June's D. de la Renta, that effectively means I can go out and spend that €1,000 on anything I may need for work. Better to buy something than to pay the hacienda, helps the economy as well ;@)
infoautonomos.es provide excellent advice obviously specific to Spanish autonomos. You can also download a free "libro de ingresos y gastos" template which is relatively simple to use and prepared for the Spanish system.
@ Nicolas,
As long as you don't earn above a certain limit (really have little memory of that value) you can continue as you do in France; paying IVA every quarter and IRPF annually. However, in fact, as others have explained, the portion of your bills to your Spanish clients corresponding to your IRPF is retained by the client and paid to the Spanish tax office. At the end of the tax year you will receive a summary of the IRPF retentions paid to the Hacienda by your clients - this should agree with your accounts, if not maybe a client has made a mistake and not paid as much IRPF to the Hacienda as they should.
When you work for clients in the EU, simply do not charge any IVA (as long as the client is registered on the EU Intracommunity tax register - not you, just the client) and do not retain (subtract) any IRPF. However you should keep track of the total amount you have received from non-Spanish clients as you will have to pay IRPF on this when you complete your annual tax return (Declaración de la Renta). I.e., if you earn €10,000 from EU clients then you should remember (and save money) that you have to pay €900 - 2,100+ in IRPF, depending on your total earnings for the year, children, etc..... in June of the next year when you complete the D. de la R.
Invoices to Spanish clients would include: Total + 21% IVA - 9% IRPF (your retention for the first 3 years is reduced to 9%, although you can pay more as the Big Neil Mac [ ;@) ] suggests and receive a healthy tax rebate the next year). Therefore it is a good idea to REGISTER AS AN AUTONOMO AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TAX YEAR, Jan-Dec, so that you can take full advantage of your 3 years at this rate (sorry for the capitals).
Feel free to contact me, see my profile, if you need any help/advice. ▲ Collapse
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