| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Free work as a favour to a friend - how much is reasonable? Thread poster: Eileen Ferguson
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Daniel Bird 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:36
German to English
| Major supplier of medical machinery you say..? | Oct 19, 2012 |
Nothing is cheap in this field. Still less free. For that 'client' one paragraph would be too much.
But OK, you only said you'd look at it not deliver anything.
You won't be letting your friend down by quoting the job; he might lose face with the company and frankly deserves to. He could look at it as a CPD session.
DB
[Edited at 2012-10-19 22:06 GMT]
| | | | | They just took you for the goldfish. | Oct 19, 2012 |
That's all.
| | | | | Passports, birth certificates, diplomas | Oct 20, 2012 |
That's what I do for free for friends and family.
I fully believe that your friend had no clue about the translation effort involved based on various comments friends and family have made to me about translation-related matters:
* What, you don't know what this random 19th century expression in German means without looking it up?
* You don't do pharmaceutical/medical/insert-random-subject-matter-field-here translations?
* So, you translate mostly from Eng... See more That's what I do for free for friends and family.
I fully believe that your friend had no clue about the translation effort involved based on various comments friends and family have made to me about translation-related matters:
* What, you don't know what this random 19th century expression in German means without looking it up?
* You don't do pharmaceutical/medical/insert-random-subject-matter-field-here translations?
* So, you translate mostly from English to German (knowing I am an English native speaker)?
* Just whip up this English-to-Latvian academic sociology text for me.
* (My favorite) So, you must do a lot of interpreting in the German neighborhood in Chicago. (???)
etc. etc. ad nauseum
I would educate him and provide his company with a quote. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:36
Hebrew to English
| Unreasonable | Oct 20, 2012 |
As others have said, I reckon this guy is being disingenuous if he claims he thinks this request is reasonable. If a file is too big to send by email then it doesn't take Einstein to know that this is no small or vaguely reasonable request.
I think he's hoping you're a doormat, probably mixed in with some deep misconceptions and misunderstandings of what translation is/entails...willful misunderstanding though, no doubt.
I wonder if he'd go to a friend who is a d... See more As others have said, I reckon this guy is being disingenuous if he claims he thinks this request is reasonable. If a file is too big to send by email then it doesn't take Einstein to know that this is no small or vaguely reasonable request.
I think he's hoping you're a doormat, probably mixed in with some deep misconceptions and misunderstandings of what translation is/entails...willful misunderstanding though, no doubt.
I wonder if he'd go to a friend who is a dentist and ask for a similar favour - a small filling perhaps which turns out to be a full set of veneers, or a friend who is a doctor and ask for a "minor" medical procedure (which turns out to be major surgery).
Just another example of how this profession is simply not respected or valued in the slightest.
Sad.
I'd even go as far as to say he is taking you for the goldfish.  ▲ Collapse
| | | | Eva Jodar (X)
Spain
Local time: 07:36
Catalan to Spanish
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| nada de nada | Oct 20, 2012 |
say him bye bye
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:36
French to English
| I do favours | Oct 20, 2012 |
I translated 25 pages of a report on a humanitarian mission in Afghanistan for a friend for free. It took me several weeks because I only did it in my spare time. The friend has done several favours for me in return (including a whole week of babysitting). I don't usually take on such large projects pro bono but this was interesting as well.
I also proofread a friend's application to do an MBA. This took me a couple of hours, then a few months later when she set up her own business... See more I translated 25 pages of a report on a humanitarian mission in Afghanistan for a friend for free. It took me several weeks because I only did it in my spare time. The friend has done several favours for me in return (including a whole week of babysitting). I don't usually take on such large projects pro bono but this was interesting as well.
I also proofread a friend's application to do an MBA. This took me a couple of hours, then a few months later when she set up her own business she had me translate her website, and insisted on paying. It was a really enjoyable project and I often direct potential clients to it as an example of my work. And she also wrote a superb recommendation.
However this is not humanitarian and it'll take a long time. Do him a favour by giving a nice quote. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Coesel
Netherlands
Local time: 07:36
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Just assuming (and that is not what I think) that your 'friend' is totally clueless of what he is asking of you, why not reply him the following:
- Once all the files are provided in an editable format
- He can start on the translation
- and you will send him a reasonable quote for proofreading/editing.
However reasonable this is (in my opinion), I bet you he - literally - won't buy it.
A true friend, even a more distant one, would have suggeste... See more Just assuming (and that is not what I think) that your 'friend' is totally clueless of what he is asking of you, why not reply him the following:
- Once all the files are provided in an editable format
- He can start on the translation
- and you will send him a reasonable quote for proofreading/editing.
However reasonable this is (in my opinion), I bet you he - literally - won't buy it.
A true friend, even a more distant one, would have suggested to his manager that you perform the translation for the company.
Let us know what happens?
Good luck,
Nicole.
lol@ who needs enemies when you have friends like that ▲ Collapse
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Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 08:36
English to Hebrew
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| Clients are clients, but some professionals share the same values with them | Oct 21, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Just another example of how this profession is simply not respected or valued in the slightest.
We, understandably, tend to focus on our profession, but in reality many other professions are also experiencing similar issues, even more so when the profession is more likely to involve freelance work (writers, web designers, photographers, etc.) and is, mostly, unregulated.
People, in general, don't know much about other professions, certainly not much about the work process and the nuances of the professions, and this is understandable. They are not supposed to know the ins-and-outs of our profession, this is why they contact a professional, and it is the professional's responsibility to educate them. It is when the service providers don't respect themselves and their profession that the problem starts. It is more prominent in unregulated professions in which virtually anyone can get up one morning and declare themselves a "professional" no matter how skill-less they are or how ill-equipped they are to run a business.
This is a bit like a chicken or the egg scenario. Which came first, the disrespectful clients or the less than professional service providers who devalue the entire profession and help perpetuate the misconception(s) and disrespect demonstrated by others?
In my opinion, the "professionals" are more to blame. The clients are not supposed to know what our profession entails. But when the professionals show similar disrespect towards themselves and their work (some are just working to supplement their income or as a "last resort" after their "main" career took a hit, and share very similar opinions with the clients; others may not be very business savvy and work themselves into disadvantage), willing to work for ridiculous rates, 24/7 and according to whichever arbitrary and/or unreasonable term or condition the client dictates them, that is where the problem begins.
As professionals we have some responsibility to educate our clients, for the sake of the profession, and there is no better place to start doing so than close to home (family and friends who demonstrate lack of basic understanding about what we do).
Edit: it has just occurred to me that this comment might be taken as a direct response/disagreement with Ty's comment that I have quoted. I just want to take this opportunity to clarify that Ty's comment just inspired me to write this comment and I used the quote just to give my comment some context.
[Edited at 2012-10-21 17:06 GMT]
| | | | Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 07:36
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Pull the other one | Oct 21, 2012 |
I would tell them to pull the other one.
This person may not have any idea of how long a translation takes but they should have an idea of how long typing 177 pages would take, and that is already more of a favor than anyone should ask for.
| | | | | Not ignorant at all | Oct 21, 2012 |
This person already asked quotes to translation agencies. And found that their prices were incredibly high and therefore not to be taken seriously. After all, it is a well-known fact that middlemen take a commission and have to make invoices. Whereas you can work from home, already have a computer and internet and therefore do not need to have such a structure. He certainly underevaluates the work, in a way. As someone said to me 20 years ago: "why do you need one hour to translate a page? You h... See more This person already asked quotes to translation agencies. And found that their prices were incredibly high and therefore not to be taken seriously. After all, it is a well-known fact that middlemen take a commission and have to make invoices. Whereas you can work from home, already have a computer and internet and therefore do not need to have such a structure. He certainly underevaluates the work, in a way. As someone said to me 20 years ago: "why do you need one hour to translate a page? You have a wordprocessor now and the computer is doing all the work for you!" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:36
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Shai Nave wrote:
Which came first, the disrespectful clients or the less than professional service providers who devalue the entire profession and help perpetuate the misconception(s) and disrespect demonstrated by others?
In my opinion, the "professionals" are more to blame. The clients are not supposed to know what our profession entails. But when the professionals show similar disrespect towards themselves and their work (some are just working to supplement their income or as a "last resort" after their "main" career took a hit, and share very similar opinions with the clients; others may not be very business savvy and work themselves into disadvantage), willing to work for ridiculous rates, 24/7 and according to whichever arbitrary and/or unreasonable term or condition the client dictates them, that is where the problem begins.
As professionals we have some responsibility to educate our clients, for the sake of the profession, and there is no better place to start doing so than close to home (family and friends who demonstrate lack of basic understanding about what we do).
Well said, Shai
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Eileen Ferguson
United States
Local time: 01:36
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Not a matter of ignorance but one of ethics | Oct 22, 2012 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Major company and they can't afford to pay for the translation? Could it be that your friend told them that he was capable of doing it himself, and that they are actually paying him?
I doubt that the company knew about this. The scenario as I understand it is that his superior reassigned him a project which was being managed by his German colleagues and was running behind schedule, for him to speed it up. Upon the project including all the relevant information being handed over however, he realized that the written material is in English. Rather than telling his boss that as a result of this little inconvenience of having to have the documents translated, not only would he would require additional time but additional budget as well, he just went with his more viable option of having the translation done overnight for free.
Since flatly refusing his "proposal" last Friday, I have not heard a thing from him. So it is fair to assume that he has moved on to his second most viable option; whatever that is.
The lacking education in question here is one of morality, which I probably can't help with. Because one (thinks he) can, does not mean that he must try to take advantage.
| | | | | I used to... | Oct 22, 2012 |
As a new translator back late 90s and early 2000s i used to do some free jobs for friends and customers (some of whom also working for big companies and trying to look good with the boss on shift). Eventually, some even ended up complaining for the "deadlines", some other began to expect free jobs all the times, while others proved more educated and never went beyond what they knew they could ask.
As to free services to my customers, same rule applies. I had one customer in particular use... See more As a new translator back late 90s and early 2000s i used to do some free jobs for friends and customers (some of whom also working for big companies and trying to look good with the boss on shift). Eventually, some even ended up complaining for the "deadlines", some other began to expect free jobs all the times, while others proved more educated and never went beyond what they knew they could ask.
As to free services to my customers, same rule applies. I had one customer in particular used to get free jobs. When they dropped me 1 word or 2 words jobs (that would be a minimum charge based on the contract, no matter what but i found it pretty ridiculous), which was fine. Except that at a given point in time the words became 10, 20, then 100, 200 and they would still pretend to get it free. Also, i don't know my colleagues, but often those small jobs are pure hell, like 200 scattered items relating to components of a gas turbine for which you get an Excel file list without any reference. That CANNOT BE DONE FOR FREE simply because the time it takes to me to do that equals the time it would take to translate a 1000 words job. With free jobs also came into their mind (my assumption to be honest), that i was working so well i could afford a rate reduction, which at a certain point they applied almost unilaterally with an excuse (blaming the crisis in September and then claiming extraordinary profits the following January). Since then i have stopped doing free jobs for anyone except some very close project managers with whom i have developed special relationships and NEVER ABUSE the fact i occasionally skip the rate for those 10 or 20 words that came as a tail of a previously translated job (text from pictures that was forgotten during scans and content extraction etc.). Past that, they are supposed to pay and i am not shy to recount the words and asking them to amend the rates if necessary (it still happens). As someone else said, we're one person companies. We're not here to work for free. I am glad to help for free occasionally, or i can skip invoicing on some words part of a big job as i don't mind granting a small reduction on really huge workflows but i really had to abolish the word FREE from my personal vocabulary because the counterparts, no matter who that is, didn't show enough ethics and common sense to appreciate the fact that those 2000 or 3000 words they get for free each each year, scattered as 1 word, or 10 words jobs, after all is money that doesn't go in my pockets. Often in my case project managers also happened to be "friends" or "good acquaintances". As a friend, i know where to stop in asking things. I'd expect the same from others. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You are not helping a friend, but his boss! | Oct 22, 2012 |
Hi!
Well I think this person does not really know what is he asking you for.
And beside this, I wonder if he will have the time to read all the work you may do. He is, in my opinion, not aware at all, about the hughe quantity of work he is asking you to do.
But please do not forget, that this is NOT a favour you are doing to him, but to the boss/company he works in. In my opinion this has nothing to do with a personal favour. So it is for me not logic to t... See more Hi!
Well I think this person does not really know what is he asking you for.
And beside this, I wonder if he will have the time to read all the work you may do. He is, in my opinion, not aware at all, about the hughe quantity of work he is asking you to do.
But please do not forget, that this is NOT a favour you are doing to him, but to the boss/company he works in. In my opinion this has nothing to do with a personal favour. So it is for me not logic to think you are doing HIM one. A personal favour on this terms would be if he or his family has written something (book, letter,...) and needs to get it into another language. But not a booklet of his company!
And among it all: A good friend would understand this, without being angry whatsoever! And, as somebody already quoted, he would not ask you to do such a big job (for free), but he would recommend you to his boss and give you the assignment, instead to someone else.
Just my two cents. Take it easy!
Kind regards,
Helena ▲ Collapse
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