| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 Thread poster: Jared Tabor
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SirReaL 
Germany
Local time: 15:49
English to Russian
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| Re some of your points | Jan 22, 2010 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one.
Why exactly would you pass to the next site if none offered these freebies anyway? Surely there are many things worth using here, and even paying for - your current membership is proof enough.
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money.
In terms of getting your time's worth, you might have been better off outlaying the membership fee instead of spending it on earning browniz (which have never been worth much anyway).
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.
That's aking to saying "I resent the fact that I am obliged to pay for my groceries, electricity, telephone connection and Internet access."
| | | | | A fully discouraging move | Jan 26, 2010 |
In 8 years of being a non-paying member, I only got ONE JOB through Proz.com, which earned me JUST $25 US. Now, I will not even participate in answering Kudoz questions, what´s the use.
Good luck, to all.
| | | | Nidhalz
Local time: 14:49
English to Arabic
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| I won't bother now. | Jan 26, 2010 |
I was actually thinking of joining, I don't think I'll bother now.
| | | | Nidhalz
Local time: 14:49
English to Arabic
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I agree 100% with all your comments.
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Jocelyne S wrote:
I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.
If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?
When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.
I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.
Best,
Jocelyne
After visiting plenty of other translation sites, I loved ProZ because it was the only one where you could apply to jobs without paying a membership. So I used my first 300 Browniz to apply to jobs, and then gathered more BrowniZ points by answering polls, answering the CAT tool surveys, entering terms in the glossaries, etc. In one year, I have applied to a total of 46 jobs thanks to the Browniz I got by doing all these activities. I got some of the jobs and obtained really good customers which I still keep. Once I saw all this was working good (at least for me) and all the extra benefits I could get, I became a paying member voluntarily. Now it's like a "take it or leave it" approach.
If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one. Not only good old translators who aren't members will lose here (and probably leave the site), but also new translators who would have loved to try the site and who felt attracted to the non-paying approach, not found elsewhere on the Net. The translators who are here for years know what is ProZ like, but the newcomers won't even have a chance.
Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money. ProZ itself will lose as well because fewer translators will be attracted and I don't know if this decision will really increase the number of memberships of the site. Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.
What a pity!
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| One less feature for everybody | Jan 27, 2010 |
- Non-paying members will not be able to quote for jobs anymore
- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones
I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest.
| | | | Anneli
Luxembourg
Local time: 15:49
Italian to Estonian
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I have hard time seeing in which way this move would encourage a paying membership because I think that those who deemed it necessary, have already purchased it. I, for one, have never intended to get it : firstly, as stated by several posters already, answering questions, composing and uploading glossaries requires times and effort and therefore I considered that Brownies I earned were not "monnaie de singe" because Proz got something back in exchange from me. Secondly, the rates I have been a... See more I have hard time seeing in which way this move would encourage a paying membership because I think that those who deemed it necessary, have already purchased it. I, for one, have never intended to get it : firstly, as stated by several posters already, answering questions, composing and uploading glossaries requires times and effort and therefore I considered that Brownies I earned were not "monnaie de singe" because Proz got something back in exchange from me. Secondly, the rates I have been able to obtain through bidding have always been ridiculously low, therefore the offers platform here did not profit me financially in any way. Nevertheless, I have been quoting systematically - I might be overly naive but I thought that if agencies who post a job offer and want people to work for "peanuts", receive quotes with rates that would be acceptable also for translators, perhaps it could change something in the long run.
[Edited at 2010-01-27 09:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | "How can I learn to walk, if you steal my shoes?" | Jan 27, 2010 |
Jared wrote:
Dear members,
Effective January 1st, 2010, it will no longer be possible for non-members to use 100 browniz points to "purchase" the right to quote on a job. (It will still be possible for non-members to pay $1, from their ProZ.com wallets, for the right to quote.)
Quoting with browniz points is a remnant from the time in ProZ.com's history when most site users were not members, and few had money in their ProZ.com wallets. Today, nearly all quotes (90%) come from paying members (or from non-members who have cash in their wallets.)
This move is intended primarily to reward and encourage membership.
Regards,
Jared
Dear members of ProZ,
I am really sorry that you took this decission. I registered as a member last July and it was my pleasure to help others with my language knowledge, since translating is one of my passions. That's why I got 200 KudoZ points, which I thank you for. The staff can also see that several of those were due to my task in the GBK glossary.
Since unfortunately many customers want only members -although they do not know whether the final output will therefore be more accurate- I was patiently waiting until the members-only hours they chose had past and quoted afterwards with my Browniz.
To my satisfaction and as a consequence of my work and patience, I got a small amount of translations. It is something tough, after being a translator for 14 years and understanding several languages, but I swallowed my pride and I took them, because at least they paid something, although in Germany it is not much.
And now that I was thinking of becoming a member after one more job or so, I unfortunately saw that Browniz were not a help anymore for a translator who is new in this platform.
That is why -here and now- I appeal to customers to give an opportunity to "young" ProZ members and to check that there is also knowledge and quality among us.
Thank you very much in advance for your chance in learning how to walk -if not run or fly-.
All the best,
Miriam
| | | | | Disappointed | Jan 28, 2010 |
Dear Jared and ProZ team,
I have been a non-paying member for three or four years, but only became aware of what ProZ had to offer towards the end of 2008. Since then I have learnt a lot, answered many questions, asked only a few, and most importantly, made friends and really experienced a kind of online community spirit I had never encountered before. As I am working on a career swing, I have every intention of becoming a paying member quite soon, but must say that this stick-and-c... See more Dear Jared and ProZ team,
I have been a non-paying member for three or four years, but only became aware of what ProZ had to offer towards the end of 2008. Since then I have learnt a lot, answered many questions, asked only a few, and most importantly, made friends and really experienced a kind of online community spirit I had never encountered before. As I am working on a career swing, I have every intention of becoming a paying member quite soon, but must say that this stick-and-carrot approach considerably reduces my pleasure in doing so.
I have rarely found the job postings available to me attractive enough to quote on, even with Brownziz. I have received a few offers of work, probably because of my visibility on Kudoz in my language pair. I really feel I've contributed a lot to ProZ, certainly more than I've got out of it so far, even though my investment has been time and not money, and this is probably true of most people in my situation.
In my opinion, ProZ will probably collect a bit more cash after this decision, but may lose something that is intangible but just as valuable, or perhaps more so. And many potential paying members, like myself, may be sorely tempted to change their mind simply out of disillusionment.
Best regards,
Christine Walsh ▲ Collapse
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| Forget about that | Jan 29, 2010 |
David Russi wrote:
Olaf Knechten wrote:
Why not just let them post a job and let the bidder quote like in any other business? Outsourcers might get influenced by the rates the others offer on here and try thier luck or just think these are normal translation rates. Once you remove the ability to publicly set a fixed price, rates will go up, I'm sure, since even when asked for their "best rate", translators will never bid as low as the prices offered in the jobs section.
As long as outsourcers are allowed to set prices and publish them here I won't become a paying member.
I like it a lot and wish it could be implemented. Unfortunately, like many other good suggestions that could actually SUPPORT translators worldwide and allow rates to go higher, it is not likely to see the day of light.
Many of us have asked for exactly this solution for years now, to no avail. I don't expect this happening any time soon.
Think about it. I'll be damned if this solution, if implemented, wouldn't have the effect of a sharp decline in the amount of jobs posted each day. If there were less job posts, there would also be less quotes on them, which means less BrowniZ/loonies spent. Not to mention less traffic as well.
I can understand that a for-profit company wants to make money on everything they do. What I don't understand is that the loonie they make on each quote is nothing compared to the overall amounts translators lose out on because of this endless sea of badly paid excuses for a job. Surely, ProZ has enough experience and user/member input by now to do things in a way that would allow them to earn revenue and help their users make money, too...
Many argue that their interest in ProZ is not tied to money, that they don't make money from the site and they don't even want to. Fair enough. However, please consider that this is the most popular portal with the most members, most job posts, most everything. As such, it has a louder voice in the industry. That voice has been shouting that translators should be paid less, if at all. That ProZ doesn't help me make money, I don't mind. That they, even indirectly, help me lose money, by, again indirectly, helping to drive rates down by allowing penny-per-word offers on the job board, that I do mind a tad bit. We all should.
Sometimes, I think that if ProZ put translators' interests a bit higher up their list of priorities, not only would they help the industry, they would also get more paying members. In my mind, that's a missed opportunity...
| | | | | That won't encourage me at all | Feb 3, 2010 |
I'm using proz.com since 2005 and I never got a job by sending a quote via the website. Anyway I continued trying because I had those browniz to use.
Now I will just quit it.
| | | | | Paying members still have priority | Feb 3, 2010 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones
I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest.
Cristina, where did you read this?
I don't think it is true.
The differentiation between paying members (that is people paying the membership fee) and non-paying users did not change. As far as I know, members' quotes will still be listed before users' quotes.
Katalin
| | | | Laureana Pavon
Uruguay
Local time: 11:49
Member (2007)
English to Spanish
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MODERATOR | Paying members still have an advantage over non-paying users | Feb 3, 2010 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones.
I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest.
Cristina, I believe you are mistaken. Let me quote part of the text that appears on the membership page (http://www.proz.com/membership/ )
- Members appear before all non-members in the directory
- Outsourcers that post jobs see quotes from members first
There's a very clear comparison of features on that page that may be helpful.
Best regards,
Laureana
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| Why not abolish all points altogether, and maybe even the quote system, too? | Feb 10, 2010 |
As far as I understand, the very *raison d'être* of browniz and kudoz points is to give some kind of recognition to people actively giving their time and knowledge to the site. These people are boosting the image of ProZ and, ultimately, its profits, and rewarding them with membership benefits, though not an imperative, is good stewardship. Withholding the last one of these benefits looks like greed.
On a related note, site owners keep claiming that paid membership is oh-so-wonderful beca... See more As far as I understand, the very *raison d'être* of browniz and kudoz points is to give some kind of recognition to people actively giving their time and knowledge to the site. These people are boosting the image of ProZ and, ultimately, its profits, and rewarding them with membership benefits, though not an imperative, is good stewardship. Withholding the last one of these benefits looks like greed.
On a related note, site owners keep claiming that paid membership is oh-so-wonderful because of much better exposure to clients, etc. Сall me jaded, but I fail to see significant benefits to anyone but young linguists with low rates. I work in 8 language pairs and have been with ProZ for 3 years. Out of 39 quotes I submitted through the site, I got exactly ONE job and about 10-15 responses saying my rates were too high. I am afraid the entire system of job bidding as it stands now is doing a disservice to the translators by allowing the clients to drive the prices (and thus the quality) down. When I see 500-word jobs being put up for bidding, or the dreaded phrase "please give us your best rates", I know it's another cheapskate looking to get a job done for peanuts.
I am not saying ProZ was useless - on the contrary, I got quite a few excellent contacts with clients and colleagues, but none of them was due to the job and directory services. Allegedly, these do a lot more to paid members, but sorry, I am not convinced. Please, please prove me wrong! Could I please have a testimonial from a seasoned professional working in the upper price segment of the translation market? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 14:49
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| My reasons for paying | Feb 10, 2010 |
Anton Konashenok wrote:
rewarding them with membership benefits, though not an imperative, is good stewardship.
I agree that the active involvement of translation professionals is an absolute imperative for ProZ, who need to make all possible effort to attract and retain them. However, BrowniZ will continue to offer a reduction in membership fees (albeit small), so I think they are continuing to do that.
Could I please have a testimonial from a seasoned professional working in the upper price segment of the translation market?
I'm not sure I really qualify on either count, but I'm certainly not a beginner charging stupidly low rates.
I agree entirely that allowing posters to state the rate is not a good idea as it does make ProZ look a bit like a slave-trading organisation that welcomes buyers who are 100% interested in price and not one bit concerned with quality. But even posters who don't state their price have a price in mind, don't they? I recently quoted 0.10€ per word and received an emailed reply welcoming me as a collaborator and asking me to logon to their site - where I was asked to agree to their rate of 6€ per 400-word article! I make that 0.015€!
But I'm not leaving ProZ because of this type of client (although the trend does worry me). I get a lot of work through ProZ and virtually none of it from posted jobs. I don't go after the clients with my tongue hanging out - they come looking for me! They are agencies and outsourcers looking for particular specialisations, fellow translators looking to please regular end-clients with demands that they cannot fulfil, even people who register on ProZ just so they can contact me directly. This last one may not apply to every translator but one of my specialisations is French to English CVs so there are an awful lot of potential clients for a job that brings in on average 50€.
If the only way to benefit financially from ProZ was through job posts, I would think twice about being a paid member, though there would still be reason to stay here for the networking, the exchange of information in forum posts, the Blue Board information, the help of KudoZ (giving as well as profiting from), etc. But as long as clients who seriously need a serious translator can find me and contact me, I'll keep paying for my membership.
| | | | | Mmmmmmmmmmm.... | Feb 24, 2010 |
I'm not a paying member, I decided that I would become one after getting a steady work flow from ProZ, say at least 1 project each month.
That never actually happened and I get the bulk of my work from other sources, so I never became a member. I think the services that ProZ offers me are fine for a free membership, since ProZ also benefits from me being here.
ProZ makes a profit from advertising too, and I felt the BrowniZ were a sot of reward for participating in the ... See more I'm not a paying member, I decided that I would become one after getting a steady work flow from ProZ, say at least 1 project each month.
That never actually happened and I get the bulk of my work from other sources, so I never became a member. I think the services that ProZ offers me are fine for a free membership, since ProZ also benefits from me being here.
ProZ makes a profit from advertising too, and I felt the BrowniZ were a sot of reward for participating in the site's activities and actually increasing the site's online presence and traffic (which brings more ads and profits to the site).
Now, ProZ is just like any other site, why would I want to become a member here and not in other similar sites?
[Edited at 2010-02-24 20:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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