Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

palma de cerejeida

English translation:

cerejeira crotch

Added to glossary by Charles Davis
May 7, 2014 14:04
10 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Spanish term

palma de cerejeida

Spanish to English Other Furniture / Household Appliances Interior Design
This is a description of one of the materials used for of pieces of furniture of very high quality classic design.

"la influencia es un marcado estilo Imperio. Entre los materiales utilizados cabe destacar el uso de palma de cerejeida combinada con fajas en lupa de roble..."


Thanks in advance!
Change log

May 14, 2014 07:34: Charles Davis Created KOG entry

Discussion

Rachael West (asker) May 7, 2014:
Thank you to all for these suggestions! I am now going through all of the references, as I haven't had time until now, but some of them look excellent - Taña, as always comes up with some great ones.
@Phil: A huge thank you, your suggestion was great. I was concerned about the client's name being exposed on here, so I enquired whether your link (in the discussion entry) could be deleted, and the answer came back that the whole question had been deleted. I do apologise for that, but I wasn't happy with a link to the whole translation appearing.
Charles Davis May 7, 2014:
@ Phil As I say, I suspect the origin of the name is that the grain looks like a palm frond. It's also compared with a feather.

Maybe people in the timber and furniture trades are not such sensitive souls as we are, but really the word crotch is absolutely standard and doesn't seem to put people off. It's widely advertised under that name and regarded as beautiful and luxurious.
philgoddard May 7, 2014:
DRAE doesn't have any references for palma = crotch, though I think this is probably the correct translation. Maybe the idea is that it's like an upturned hand. You could possibly add a few words explaining "crotch" - as Taña points out, it doesn't sound very appealing.
Charles Davis May 7, 2014:
@ Tana I'm very relieved to hear it! (that you haven't disappeared, I mean) :) As for crotch, well, I see what you mean, but if that's what it's called, that's what it's called.
Taña Dalglish May 7, 2014:
@ Charles No, I haven't disappeared, but as you rightly said I dislike the term "crotch".
philgoddard May 7, 2014:
Rachael Why did you request that your other question (fajas en lupa de roble) be deleted? I spent ten minutes of my time researching it - you could at least have said thank you even if you didn't agree with the answer.
Charles Davis May 7, 2014:
I am quite sure that the appropriate translation here is cerejeira crotch, but I don't want to post it until Taña has confirmed that she doesn't intend to, since she's put it in her reference entry. But she seems to have disappeared.

Cerejeida doesn't exist, by the way; it's an error for cerejeira.

This is not cherry (pace Kew); cherry is one species or another of Prunus and this is a different genus. In timber terms they're quite different. The confusion arises from the fact that cerejeira is the Portuguese word for cherry as well.

It's sometimes called Brazilian oak when it's used as timber, but as a veneer it's called cerejeira in the English-speaking timber trade, or occasionally cumaru.

And palma is indeed crotch, denoting a particular kind of grain pattern; nothing at all to do with palm trees!
DLyons May 7, 2014:
Wouldn't that be "cherry wood"?
Rachael West (asker) May 7, 2014:
Lo he pensado, Juan... pero sigo sin saber como es en inglés.

Wendy Streitparth May 7, 2014:
Here's a link with palm wood and oak furniture.
like this gorgeous buffet table made of bamboo, palm wood and oak
http://designconnectioninc.com/blog/tag/interior-designer-ka...

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
Selected

cerejeira crotch

There are two elements to this. "Cerejeida" is the name of a wood (usually called "cerejeira"), and "palma" means that it comes from a particular part of the tree and consequently has a particular kind of grain.

Cerejeida, as I say (and others have said) is more usually called cerejeira. If you look for cerejeida in Google you find some results in Spanish. I don't know whether it's a legitimate variant name or a plain error, but in any case I'm sure it's the same thing.

Cerejeira is the Brazilian word for cherry (tree):
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerejeira
and if this were Portuguese it could mean cherry wood; but in Spanish (and English) cerejeira refers to a different tree (also called cerejeira in Brazil), from the genus Amburana, normally Amburana cearensis, often regarded as a kind of oak:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amburana_cearensis
http://delta-intkey.com/wood/es/www/papamcea.htm

Several names are used for this wood in English, the most common being cerejeira, cumaru and Brazilian oak, but when it's used as a veneer it's normally called cerejeira:

" VENEER DETAIL
CEREJEIRA
Also known as: Cumare, Cumaru, Brazilian Oak
Botanical Name: Amburana cearensis
Origin: South America, principally Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina"
http://www.capitalcrispin.com/cerejeira.aspx

"Palma" doesn't mean palm here (except to the extent that I suspect the name arises from the supposed resemblance of the grain to a palm frond): it means what is known as crotch wood. I'm sorry about the name, but that is what it's called and there is no accurate alternative.

It means that the wood comes from a part of the tree where there is a junction between a trunk and a branch or between two branches:

"9. palma –CROTCH- *Chapa cortada junto a la bifurcación u horquilla de dos ramas grandes; en general muestra *veteado floreado o rizado."
http://www.reddccadgiz.org/diccionario.php (under "chapas")

"También este corte es la verdadera, y la que se debe llamar “palma de caoba”(en ingles “crotch mahogany”). Sale de la parte principal del arbol donde se unen 2 troncos o ramas grandes."
http://www.anticuarium.es/blog/la-practica/881

"Crotch is a figure that develops when a tree knits a trunk to a branch or two branches together (image 1). It is often referred to as a plume or a feather (image 2). Almost all hardwood trees have crotches although not all crotches are created equal in splendor."
http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/wood-figu...

It is tempting to avoid the word "crotch" by using "plume" or "feather", but this is just not done in the timber trade; try looking for "crotch veneer" and then for "plume veneer" and "feather veneer". It's got to be crotch, I'm afraid.

So this is why you find all the references to cerejeira crotch:

http://www.janson.de/html/wortholz.html
http://www.wood-veneer.eu/veneer/veneer-by-character/crotch/
etc., plus the ones Taña cited.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2014-05-07 18:30:57 GMT)
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I am not "dissing" Kew Gardens, but botanical names are one thing and trade names are another. There is no way this can be called cherry wood, and it would be much less expensive if it were cherry.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2014-05-08 06:49:33 GMT)
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It's absolutely right to be sensitive about whether a term sounds attractive when it is to be used for commercial purposes, but that kind of decision can't be taken from a position of no knowledge or experience of the language used in the furniture trade; you have to look and see what people say. And you find things like this:

"Global has crotch mahogany look"
http://www.furnituretoday.com/article/483436-global-has-crot...

"Crotch Walnut "Flaming Veneer" Side Cabinet"
Fine Art Furniture
http://www.fineartqatar.com/store/index.php?route=product/pr...

"Maitland-Smith Dining Room Light Crotch Mahogany Lighted Breakfront China Cabinet"
http://www.norwoodfurniture.com/Maitland-Smith-Light-Crotch-...

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Note added at 16 hrs (2014-05-08 06:51:04 GMT)
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And of course if "crotch" is a selling point, which it certainly is, then you're doing the client no favours by suppressing it. In fact you really can't, in my opinion.
Peer comment(s):

agree James A. Walsh
1 hr
Thanks, James ;)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, this was a great help. Thanks to all answerers and contributors because it is so useful to contrast different possibilities. In this case, the literal translation was most appropriate."
+1
1 hr

cherry wood / amburana

As per Kew.
Peer comment(s):

agree Wendy Streitparth : Who'd want to argue with them?
52 mins
Thanks Wendy. They would know (dreadful pun).
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

brazilian oak

Apparently "cerejeria" is this. I don't know if it's a palm or not.
"Cerejeira (Roble Brasileño). (Cerejeira, Tauari, Ishpingo). Características: Madera moderadamente pesada; color beige Amarillo a beige rosado, uniforme, ..."

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-05-07 15:47:12 GMT)
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www.imdomaca.com.do/productos/cerejeira-roble-brasileno


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Note added at 1 hr (2014-05-07 15:48:25 GMT)
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Here's a link in English:
http://www.nogalink.com/brazilian-oak-flooring.htm

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Note added at 16 hrs (2014-05-08 06:19:04 GMT)
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And "Brazilian Oak" SOUNDS BETTER for a commercial text, whther it is 100% accurate or not.
Note from asker:
Thanks for this answer, I'd certainly consider it for some specific texts, it's a nice way around the term. Thanks for the refs.
Peer comment(s):

agree Juan Jacob : Pues será... "palma" supongo que es una lámina muy delgada de dicha madera.
2 mins
¡Más madera!
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

cerejeida (sic) > cerejeira

http://www.sg-veneers.com/Cerejeira-Pyramide.216.0.html?&L=1
Character / Color:
Nature's true artistry shows itself in veneer produced – with great effort – from the crotch or curl of a tree. A good example of such veneer comes from the South American hardwood Cerejeira. In this case, the beauty of the double cross-grain wood with clearly defined vessels is revealed in vivid pyramid-like figures which unfold as fireworks of light and dark contrasts and give an exquisite note to the grayish white to amber-colored wood.

Main occurrence:
Mainly in Brazil south of the Amazon, Peru, Bolivia to northern Argentina


Losan - Rarezas
http://www.losan.es/web/guest/chapamaderanatural/rarezas › ... › Chapa de Madera Natural › Diseños‎
Rarezas de la madera natural. ... español; English. Buscar: contacto; mapa web. Tablero de Melamina ... Palma de Caoba. Palma de Cerejeira. Pau Ferro.
Cerejeira Crotch > palma de cerejeira


http://www.relianceveneer.com/CEREJEIRA-CROTCH-CEREJEIRA-CUR...
Cerejeira Crotch Veneer

Cerejeira Crotch/ Curl is a South American specie of real importance and beauty.
Used primarily for the production of fine furniture, this specie is light in colour and can be used naturally or stained to a darker colour.
RELIANCE VENEER hold large stocks of this specie in crotch and swirl in all dimensions


Cerejeira Crotch by Herzog Veneers
www.veneeronline.com/InvList1.aspx?species=MAHCER
Herzog Veneers, Inc. Natural Burl Veneers Natural Crotch Veneers Dyed Veneers Natural Longwood .... Cerejeira Crotch Wood Veneer - 8 logs in stock ...
Cerejeira Crotch - Schorn & Groh Furniere - Veneers
www.sg-veneers.com/Cerejeira-Pyramide.216.0.html?&L=1
Furnier - Natürlich von Schorn & Groh / Veneers - Naturally by Schorn & Groh.
CEREJEIRA CROTCH VENEER - Fordaq
www.fordaq.com › ... › Natural Veneer › Natural Veneer Requests‎
Mar 18, 2014 - SLICED VENEER TYPE :Natural Veneer; SPECIES :Cerejeira; CUT :Crotch (fork); QUALITY :AA (extra); AREA :1500 m2 (sqm); THICKNESS ...


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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-05-07 17:31:36 GMT)
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Perhaps "Cerejeira Tiger Curl Veneer" or "Cerejeira Tiger Wood". IMO, sounds better than "crotch".

cerejeira crotch|wood veneers - Reliance Veneer Co
www.relianceveneer.com/CEREJEIRA...VENEERS-CEREJEIRA-CURL.....
Cerejeira Tiger Crotch also ****Cerejeira Tiger Curl Veneer***** and ***Cerejeira Tiger Wood**** are specialities of London manufacturer Reliance Veneer. Reliance has been ...
Cerejeira Crotch/ Curl Veneer - Reliance Veneer Co
www.relianceveneer.com/CEREJEIRA...CEREJEIRA-CURL...VENEER....
Cerejeira Crotch Veneer also Cerejeira Curl Veneer and Cerejeira Crotch Wood are specialities of London manufacturer Reliance Veneer. Reliance has been ...
You visited this page on 5/7/14.
H Shawyer & Sons Ltd - Cerejeira Curl Veneers ...
www.veneeredpanels.com/veneer-detail.php?key=51
H Shawyer & Sons Ltd are manufacturers of high quality architectural Cerejeira Curl veneered panels and Cerejeira Curl doors across the UK.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Charles Davis : I've been researching this more or less in parallel to you. Are you going to post an answer?
26 mins
Thank you Charles. No, you go ahead! Actually, I am not comfortable with "crotch" as it is really ugly! LOL!
agree philgoddard : Same here. We've actually had "palma" for "crotch" before, though I'm not 100% sure if it's right: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/tech_engineerin...
1 hr
Thank you Phil.
agree neilmac : Same crotch discomfort here ;)
5 days
Thanks Neil. I would really love a way to avoid using the term, but it is what it is!
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