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Feb 21, 2013 19:40
11 yrs ago
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Spanish term

Por tanto, se trata de formar doctores no solo para la Universidad

Spanish to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy Academic Paper
Evening all,

This is from an academic paper on implementing the European Higher Education Area (EHEA) and the Salzburg Principles, and the changes this has brought about in doctoral education in Spain. The paper was drafted by a Professor Emeritus of a Spanish university.

This sentence is giving me a bit of a headache, and I’m not sure I’m getting the idea across with my current draft, so would appreciate some opinions/suggestions.

Context:

“Con el desarrollo del EEES y de los principios de Salzburgo, la formación doctoral pasa a ser interdisciplinar, promueve la movilidad, la cooperación y las redes a nivel doctoral, e incluye la formación del doctorando/a en competencias transversales, con el objetivo de adecuar las habilidades adquiridas por el doctorando/a a las necesidades reales de la sociedad y así aumentar la empleabilidad de los nuevos doctores/as, especialmente en el mundo empresarial. En este sentido, hay que tener en cuenta que, según la encuesta del INE referida a datos del 2009 en España, el 44.4% de los doctores/as está empleado en la enseñanza superior, el 35.8% en las administraciones públicas y el 15.7% en las empresas. Por tanto, se trata de formar doctores/as no solo para la Universidad o los centros de investigación, sino también para las empresas. Así, el diseño de los programas de formación doctoral ha de tener en cuenta las necesidades de los diversos segmentos de un mercado de trabajo cada vez más diversificado y basado en el conocimiento. ”

My current draft:

“As a result of implementing the EHEA and Salzburg Principles, doctoral education has become interdisciplinary, and now promotes mobility, cooperation and doctoral networks, as well as training PhD candidates in transferable skills, with the aim of adapting those skills to the actual needs of society, which increases the employability of new PhD graduates, especially in the private sector. In this regard, it should be noted that in 2009 some 44.4% of PhD graduates were employed in higher education, 35.8% in public administrations and 15.7% in the private sector, according to survey data from the National Statistics Institute of Spain for that year. So the aim is not just to turn out PhD graduates for Universities and research centres, but also for the private sector. Therefore, the needs of the various segments of an increasingly diverse, knowledge-based labour market must be considered when designing doctoral programmes.”
_________________________

Going into UK English. Thanks in advance.

Discussion

Patricia ONeill Feb 23, 2013:
Produce? Sorry, but I am still not comfortable with it (if worth something). Formar in Spanish is something much more delicate and artistic than producing. Although I am en engineer, I can recognize that sometimes we don´t cover the whole range. I would go for "shape" or something along those lines, something that speaks of the complexity of the task and the subtlety it requires.
Cheers.
James A. Walsh (asker) Feb 22, 2013:
Thanks, Charles Yes, I've changed it to "produce" this morning actually - got that same inappropriate sense of "turn out" as you.

However, I just can't bring myself to put "transversal". Apart from how utterly awful it sounds, there's lots of reliable evidence out there to support the use of "transference", such as this, for example: http://www.materials.ox.ac.uk/teaching/pg/pgskills.html
This describes exactly what my text calls “competencias transversales”, but refers to it as "transferable skills". And seeing it's from Oxford, that's good enough for me. View lots more here: http://tinyurl.com/ad332za

By the way, I'm using both "PhD graduates" and "PhDs".
Charles Davis Feb 22, 2013:
@ James For what it's worth, "produce" would be my choice. "Turn out" is a touch too informal for my taste and carries, for me, an inappropriate implication of automatic production (sort of "sausage machine" manufacture).

I have surrendered to "transversal", though I share your distaste for it. You get used to it, as you deal with texts on educational theory, and by now I find it quite routine.

By the way, although I had doubts about "PhD graduates" at first (because I instinctively associate the word "graduate" with first-degree level), I've checked it out and it's absolutely fine: standard term. You can just say "PhDs".
James A. Walsh (asker) Feb 22, 2013:
Well, no... Because I haven't done so for several years - so why would I start now? I need to be consistent with terminology, period.
pawlik Feb 22, 2013:
But if the original is in EU Spanish, shouldn't you translate it into EU English?
James A. Walsh (asker) Feb 21, 2013:
The same reasoning applies to “transversal” As a translator, I refuse to bow to bastardised “EU English” – English is my first language, and I despise translating “competencias transversales” as “transversal skills”, because A) “transversal” says absolutely nothing to me, and B) it just sounds wrong! Plus I understand “transferable skills” from my own uni days, and instantly get it, so it’s bit of a no-brainer really...
James A. Walsh (asker) Feb 21, 2013:
Thanks for your suggestions, folks Just a note about my reasons for choosing the terms in my current draft (above). The author refers to students as “doctorandos/as” (PhD students/candidates, depending on context), “estudiantes” and “alumnado” throughout the paper, and here it refers to them as “doctores/as”; so I think it’s making a distinction, which needs to be reflected in the English.
I’ve worked for this university for several years, and have translated it as “PhD graduate” in the past, so I need to be consistent with terminology. Also, I understand “formar” here in the broader sense, rather than “educate/train” (again based on specific terms used in the ST). I think the following Oxford Spanish definition applies:
formar | verbo transitivo
C ‹carácter/espíritu› to form, shape
_____________

I arrived at “turn out” from that. And have “produce” on standby. Cheers :)

Proposed translations

17 mins

Therefore, the aim is to train doctors not only for University

Although I have some doubts regarding train vs educate.

Something went wrong...
+3
27 mins

... educate students to PhD level solely for employment in universities

A doctorate is education, not training. It would be "universities" without a capital. And by the way, for this text, I would use "transversal" for "transversales", it's eurospeak and matches the general tone of the whole. I'd also break up the first sentence into two.
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard
1 hr
agree Sean Mitchell : I think this sounds good; though somehow 'educating students to PhD level' doesn't sound half as grandiose as 'formando doctores'.
3 hrs
agree John Cutler
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
39 mins

It is therefore not simply about educating PhD students for (the benefit of) universities ...

I would definitely go with educate rather than train. While the text doesn't specify 'benefit' nor does it 'employment' but I think 'employment' is putting in something too specific that is not in the original text.
Peer comment(s):

neutral pawlik : no, he's talking about employability and the labour market
8 mins
Something went wrong...
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