Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
умение жить
English translation:
savoir-vivre, knowing how to live
Added to glossary by
Natalia Volkova
Oct 14, 2012 13:29
11 yrs ago
Russian term
умение жить
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Expression
This expression is used in a discussion of France's conduct during WWII. The speaker is accusing the French of being unscrupulous in their strategy for survival. So it's more than the French's "ability to live". It's their tendency to do whatever it takes, even collaborate, if that was a means to survival. Here's a note I got from the author: "«уметь жить» т.е. уметь првильно строить отношения с людьми и оборачивать любую ситуацию на выгоду себе, часто не очень честными и благородными методами."
I'd be inclined to explain this in full in the text, but the phrase "умение жить" is the subject of some wordplay in the dialogue immediately following.
Here's some context, including the banter where the phrase becomes distorted and inverted:
Французы умеют превращать позорные поражения в блестящие дипломатические победы так же органично, как израильтяне превращают блестящие победы в позорные дипломатические поражения. Французы *умеют жить*. И сегодня Интендант, как-то стыдливо усмехаясь, словно его окончательно достал мой отец, провозглашает:
ИНТЕНДАНТ: За *неумение жить*!
ПРЕСС-СЕКРЕТАРЬ: Потому что *умением жить* мы завистливо восхищаемся, а неумению – восхищенно не завидуем.
ИНТЕНДАНТ: Брезгливо восхищаемся. А не завидуем – да, восхищенно. Но все-таки слишком редко.
СТРЕЛОК: Умение жить без *умения умирать* не стоит и отстрелянной в дерьмо гильзы!
ПРЕСС-СЕКРЕТАРЬ: А зачем *уметь умирать*. Ещё ни у кого это ни разу ни не получилось. Лучше уж уметь не умирать.
Any ideas how to translate this idea concisely?
I'd be inclined to explain this in full in the text, but the phrase "умение жить" is the subject of some wordplay in the dialogue immediately following.
Here's some context, including the banter where the phrase becomes distorted and inverted:
Французы умеют превращать позорные поражения в блестящие дипломатические победы так же органично, как израильтяне превращают блестящие победы в позорные дипломатические поражения. Французы *умеют жить*. И сегодня Интендант, как-то стыдливо усмехаясь, словно его окончательно достал мой отец, провозглашает:
ИНТЕНДАНТ: За *неумение жить*!
ПРЕСС-СЕКРЕТАРЬ: Потому что *умением жить* мы завистливо восхищаемся, а неумению – восхищенно не завидуем.
ИНТЕНДАНТ: Брезгливо восхищаемся. А не завидуем – да, восхищенно. Но все-таки слишком редко.
СТРЕЛОК: Умение жить без *умения умирать* не стоит и отстрелянной в дерьмо гильзы!
ПРЕСС-СЕКРЕТАРЬ: А зачем *уметь умирать*. Ещё ни у кого это ни разу ни не получилось. Лучше уж уметь не умирать.
Any ideas how to translate this idea concisely?
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +7 | savoir-vivre |
Natalia Volkova
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3 +1 | knowing how to live |
David Knowles
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3 | knowing how to stay alive |
Jim Stuber (X)
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3 | a knack of living |
Yuri Radcev
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Change log
Oct 28, 2012 06:12: Natalia Volkova Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+7
9 mins
Selected
savoir-vivre
(a noun)
ability to live life well and with intelligent enjoyment, meeting every situation with poise, good manners, and elegance
savoir-vivre in Webster's New World College Dictionary
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Note added at 34 mins (2012-10-14 14:03:21 GMT)
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"умение жить" as opposed to "умение умирать":
"savoir-vivre" as opposed to "savoir-mourir"
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Note added at 1 hr (2012-10-14 15:19:24 GMT)
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I propose a toast20:58
I propose a toast to the lack of skill of savoir-vivre.
...It`s better to possess a skill of "savoir-survivre".
Something like that.
ability to live life well and with intelligent enjoyment, meeting every situation with poise, good manners, and elegance
savoir-vivre in Webster's New World College Dictionary
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2012-10-14 14:03:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"умение жить" as opposed to "умение умирать":
"savoir-vivre" as opposed to "savoir-mourir"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-10-14 15:19:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I propose a toast20:58
I propose a toast to the lack of skill of savoir-vivre.
...It`s better to possess a skill of "savoir-survivre".
Something like that.
Example sentence:
Ernaux contests the idea that middle- class culture is the legitimate culture, that middle-class savoir-vivre is the only one of any value.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Susan Welsh
19 mins
|
Thank you Susan!
|
|
agree |
The Misha
: Savoir-vivre and savoir-mourir, of course
53 mins
|
Thank you the Misha!
|
|
agree |
MariyaN (X)
3 hrs
|
Thank you Maria!
|
|
agree |
Iryna Crany
3 hrs
|
Thank you Iryna!
|
|
agree |
Sasha Spence (X)
3 hrs
|
Thank you Sasha!
|
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agree |
Alexandra Schneeuhr
: I'd prefer 'savoir-survivre', if you do not awfully mind (to distinguish somehow between the good old art of living and the war-time collaboration tricks). It'd go nicely with 'savoir-mourir' in the next passage, too
15 hrs
|
Thank you. Why should I mind? I have already mentioned the both expressions in my explanations to the answer and in the discussion box!
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agree |
cyhul
59 days
|
Thank you, Cyhul!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
1 hr
knowing how to live
I'm worried that savoir-vivre/mourir won't carry through properly, so I'm trying another option. I was thinking about whether to put "survive" in at one or more point rather than "live", because that gets over the idea of turning things to one's advantage, but I'm not sure it helps.
Rough abbreviated translation:
To not knowing how to live!
Knowing how to live is celebrated, but not knowing - we don't celebrate that.
No good knowing how to live without knowing how to die.
What do you mean? Knowing how not to die is much better.
Rough abbreviated translation:
To not knowing how to live!
Knowing how to live is celebrated, but not knowing - we don't celebrate that.
No good knowing how to live without knowing how to die.
What do you mean? Knowing how not to die is much better.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Natalia Volkova
: It might be a good choice as well but I think in this case the French charm and “la splendeur” of the phrase are unfortunately lost.
32 mins
|
See my discussion entry. I agree that my answer is more prosaic!
|
|
agree |
LilianNekipelov
: Yes, absolutely.
1 day 19 hrs
|
5 hrs
knowing how to stay alive
It's a bit wordy but, if I understand the historical context, I would call say it means "knowing how to stay alive" or "doing whatever it takes to stay alive".
14 hrs
a knack of living
не совсем "то" по смыслу, на мой взгляд, но все же...
Discussion
What makes you think that it would be out of character?
During the WWII ALL men from 18 to 70 were sent to war in the Soviet Union. This war was called Great Patriotic War here. Many soldiers were highly educated. A lot of scientists, professors and other intellectual élite were in the trenches as well.
So it is quite normal when a Soviet soldier in a book about in WWII knows foreign languages.
To me this is yet another great example of why it is that I personally hate translating other people's fiction (which I don't) - as opposed to writing your own. You always have to make sacrifices.
Actually, one may juxtapose here 'savoir-vivre' (a generally dignified notion) and 'savoir-survivre' (somewhat collaborationism-flavoured), and from here on to proceed to 'savoir-mourir...
I personally can`t fancy "joie" de mourir - here and in general! As to savoir-mourir it fits not badly in this situation.
...The subject matter of your translation is truly interesting and сomplex, lucky you ))
You should post your proposal as a proposed answer.
May be 'joie de survivre' would work, as opposed to commonly used and easily recongnized 'joie de vivre'?