Nov 14, 2009 19:42
15 yrs ago
Russian term
девочка припевочка
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Talking with children
A father says this, affectionately, to his small daughter. I'm thinking of writing, "Little girl, my little pearl." Any other ideas?
Proposed translations
(English)
4 | little one, my honey bun |
Judith Hehir
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4 +2 | my girly girl |
Larissa Dinsley
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4 +1 | What's up, buttercup? |
Tevah_Trans
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4 | sweety pie |
Michael Korovkin
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3 | My lil singer |
Andrey Belousov (X)
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Proposed translations
25 mins
Selected
little one, my honey bun
Kind of corny, but it rhymes. I actually like your own suggestion, Rachel.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Judith, and all. I haven't decided between this one and "little girl, my little pearl." The rhyme "one / bun" is more sing-songy, but the "pearl" version emphasizes that it's about a girl. I do appreciate all the discussion and speculation about the background of the verse, especially Alexander Kuprianchuk's historical note. But, for my context, I don't actually want to load this with historical meaning. It needs to be 1) affectionately addressed to a little girl, 2) something that would stick in the mind of a psychologically blocked person. It comes at a complex moment in the narrative: the father, a tough guy with a harsh personality, has become quite ill and is in the hospital. The family is visiting. The guy can hardly speak, but he gasps out this rhyme which he always recites to his three-year-old daughter, who is terrified about her Papa lying in this strange hospital ward with five other men. The narration is from the standpoint of the little girl's slightly older brother, who is afraid of his father and angry at the man's abusive behavior toward his wife, the children's mother. Until this moment, the reader doesn't expect the father to express any spark of kindness or affection. That's why I was looking for a long-rhyme verse (because he might not have remembered it, otherwise), with some term of endearment addressed to his little girl. My only problem with "What's up..." is that it makes me think of Bugs Bunny. As for the repetition of "little," that doesn't bother me, probably thanks to "There was a little girl, who had a little curl..." I'm not making a glossary entry, since this is all very context-specific, and there are other settings in which some of the other suggestions would be good, too."
+1
38 mins
What's up, buttercup?
That's the saying in my house.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Alina EN-RU
: в восприятии РУССКОЯЗЫЧНОГО человека "припевочка" никак не тянет ни на "жемчужинку", ни на слишком "girly" girl, а вот "лютик" вполне подходяще, и рифма, устоийчивость выражения отражены. Мне ОЧЕНЬ нравится.
1 hr
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Thanks Galina!
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neutral |
Zahar Fialkovsky
: Да, но что в оригинале? Вопрос? "What's up, buttercup?" означает: "Ну что, кнопка, как дела?" Остается попросить Рейчел предоставить реальный контекст.
1 hr
|
7 hrs
My lil singer
Rachel, I'm sorry... I had too much on that day.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2009-11-15 04:06:51 GMT)
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My perception is that the girl likes to sing....
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Note added at 8 hrs (2009-11-15 04:06:51 GMT)
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My perception is that the girl likes to sing....
12 hrs
sweety pie
It's just a hypochoristic term: imo, the reference to singing is incidental. So, I'd go for a conventional little nothing, like above.
+2
40 mins
my girly girl
This is actually what it means - a really good girl, a girly girl. It is from a song from a cartoon - девочки-припевочки, мальчики-зайчики.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-11-14 21:16:50 GMT)
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Thank you all for your comments. You may have noticed that I have put "good girl" in my explanation. However, I understand it not only as a good girl but as a girly girl as opposed to tomboy, or indeed a boy.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-11-15 12:03:11 GMT)
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Now, as they say, context is the king. If you need to make a point about singing a line from a song, you have to take into account that this phrase is popular and recognisable. I think it would be useful to use a similarly recognisable line in English. Now, I am not familiar with American children's folklore, but if I were to translate it for the British audience, I would use something like ***my bonnie lassie*** which is a very know line from nursery rhymes.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-11-14 21:16:50 GMT)
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Thank you all for your comments. You may have noticed that I have put "good girl" in my explanation. However, I understand it not only as a good girl but as a girly girl as opposed to tomboy, or indeed a boy.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-11-15 12:03:11 GMT)
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Now, as they say, context is the king. If you need to make a point about singing a line from a song, you have to take into account that this phrase is popular and recognisable. I think it would be useful to use a similarly recognisable line in English. Now, I am not familiar with American children's folklore, but if I were to translate it for the British audience, I would use something like ***my bonnie lassie*** which is a very know line from nursery rhymes.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Vitals
20 mins
|
Thank you, Vitals.
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neutral |
Eng-Rus/Rus-Eng
: "girly girl" is a girl who is very feminine (see, e.g., urban dictionary) while "девочка-припевочка" - это такая положительная девочка-отличница
37 mins
|
Thank you, please see my comment.
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neutral |
Judith Hehir
: agree with Eng-Rus/Rus-Eng
41 mins
|
Thank you Judith, please see my comment.
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neutral |
Zahar Fialkovsky
: Лариса, а что это за песня? Из какого мультфильма?
49 mins
|
Thank you Zahar, I cannot remember...
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agree |
bukevych
53 mins
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Thank you, bukevych.
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agree |
James McVay
: Not to disparage "little girl, my little pearl," but this is what I called my daughter when she was little.
4 hrs
|
Thank you James.
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disagree |
Andrey Belousov (X)
: Ain't reflecting or hinting on some singing, where it goes - припевочка/ Sorry, I coulda taken the whole q. on the wrong side.
7 hrs
|
Yes, you did, Andrey (in my opinion), see above.
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Discussion
Но девочки - припевочки, а ниша "зайчиков", увы, занята мальчиками. Хотя для кого-то возможны варианты...
Что ж, действительно, де густибус... аут бене, аут нигиль!
Аут :)
Now you see, English-speaking colleagues, какой, оказывается, богатый культурный пласт мы раскопали совместными усилиями. И Чуковский, и Благинина, и детский сад, и хоровое пение, и советское детство. Прибавить к этому еще Ташкент, бухарских евреев, советский узбекистан, русско-таджикские мотивы! Вот это задача для переводчика!! При этом герой -- отец -- судя по всему, напевает именно песенку на стихи Елены Благининой, хотя в каком мультфильме и т.д. она стала из стихотворения песенкой -- мы пока не знаем. Rachel, теперь у Вас есть не просто наши догадки -- у Вас есть первоисточник, а именно, само стихотворение. Вот от него и можно оттолкнуться в переводе.
Например:
МАЛЬЧИКИ как ЗАЙЧИКИ,
ДЕВОЧКИ как БЕЛОЧКИ
Прыгают и скачут,
Упадут - не плачут.
И так далее... Есть другие, более ранние и поздние...
Белочка (как и девочка) - женский род. Зайчик (как и мальчик)
- мужской. И звучные "длинные" рифмы! Это же гениальная простота!
Неужели забыли? Или ваши детки не рассказывали?
По-моему, классические и популярные в советских (отвечаю собственным опытом) и нынешних украинских (и, насколько мне известно, российских) детсадах и младшей школе пары зверят (девочки-белочки и мальчики-зайчики) здесь более подходят для Вашего исследования. Тем более, что они неплохо отложились в массовом сознании и подсознании.
BUT - anything about a "bonnie lassie" sounds not merely "British" in general, but very Scottish. Or, archaic ("My bonny lass she smileth, When she my heart beguileth...) I'm not going to put those in the mouth of a father in Tashkent, even though the archaic one's a really nice "long rhyme", in a story where there's already a complex cultural interplay among the traditions of the Bukhara Jews, Soviet Uzbekistan, and the Russian and Tajik languages!
Your original version, but slightly corrected to bring it into "cultural" consistency...
To Zahar: девочка-припевочка -- это первоначально сленговое слово возникло в среде худруков Украины и юга России еще в 1920-е годы для определения солирующей партии в детском или молодежном хоре (отсюда семантическая связь с "припевом" и вообще пением, которая действительно здесь не только для раскошной "длинной" рифмы!)
и, соответственно, девочки или девушки для этой партии -- обычно самой бойкой и голосистой во всем коллективе.
Хотя практически всех худруков в Украине вскоре расстреляли или сослали, это эвучное и эмоционально насыщенное выражение стало фактически поговоркой, пошло в народ и в массовом употреблении приобрело новое значение, став уменьшительно-ласкательным с приписыванием им некоторой "припевистой"же шаловливости (о девочках преимущественно младшего возраста, как правило, проказницах)
Читайте старые пожелтевшие газеты. Это кладезь интереснейшей информации и мыслей. Я время от времени устраиваю себе такой пир в отделе газетных фондов Нац. библиотеки им. В. Вернадского в Киеве и, если удается, ряде других мест
http://books.google.com/books?id=27i0qKdRxUYC&pg=PA80&dq=дев...
http://www.facebook.com/people/Singing-Pearl/1626031448