Domini Lucas Jan 15, 2019:

@Oliveira I often find it useful to have to speak through/process my choices out loud. If nothing else, it helps me confirm my own thoughts! Glad you found something you are happy with. Onwards and upwards for the rest of your week. :-)

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 14, 2019:

@Domini Good afternoon/evening. Indeed, my translation was somewhat creative and departing from the original text. That's what seems to make most sense. Anything more literal seems a little too heavy and out of place. I think this solution fits well in this poem and in the overall flow of his poetry. My reviewer will probably tell me later if something sounds out of the norm. I'll make a note for her to pay closer attention to this poem. Thank you, Domini.

Domini Lucas Jan 14, 2019:

@Oliveira Good morning. Happy Monday and may you all have a great week ahead!
My first reaction to your stormy-tempestuous translation is to ask whether, in terms of your comments elsewhere, it might be more creative translating than you usually prefer? I'm not definitively saying it does (I don't have your overview of the poems, in depth knowledge of Pessoa, etc), just posing the question in case it changes your thoughts. Purely because any value I can add is that if I came to the Portuguese poem cold, without any extra knowledge or conversation with you, it wouldn't be my first reaction to the Portuguese. But Katarina is probably more use to you on that front. My input is that of an outsider to the poems reading them for the first time.

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 13, 2019:

@Domini and Katarina Thank you both for your suggestions. At this point, I think I came up with a translation that I'm happy with. I read the poem a couple more times and had the feeling this line is a glaring paradox. It sounds like he's referring to the smooth course of tempestuous / turbulent life. Between the two, I picked "turbulent". This is the translation I'm using: in the smooth course of turbulent time. Fortunately, I was able to validate both "smooth course" and "tempestuous / turbulent time" in my Google search. Talking of stormy, when I accidentally typed this word by itself, Stormy Daniels came up and she was all over the page. :-) I'm not very fond of replacing "time" with "times". "Time" is more linear, seen as a single event, whereas "times" suggests different segments of time. Apparently, there's a subtle difference between the two. By using the singular, there's an implicit metaphor (meaning life). Especially in Alberto Caeiro, there are several references to the passing of the wind / cloud, and the flowing of the river. I think "smooth" fits in nicely with the river imagery. A river can also be turbulent.

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira Okey dokey. Have a great weekend :-)

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

@Domini No problem. I can wait. Take your time.

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira Again, when do you need to wrap this up? If it can wait (no pun intended) until Monday, I am still wondering whether it is possible find an answer that encompasses both? Presumably you need to wrap it up sooner?

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

@Domini Upon looking more closely at the poem, it seems like the interpretation of the title (which is also the first line) doesn't have to be dependent on the interpretation of "nimble flight". Since both "ligeiro" and "leve" mean "lightweight" (although "ligeiro" is more often used to signify "nimble, fast, agile"), I'm now gravitating towards "weightless/weighty". It seems to capture the original better. If nothing else, a more literal translation is probably the way to go in this case.

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

meaningless It seems to be related to useless ("vão", "improfícuo" in the poem). Definitely, "meaningless" summarizes the way he views life. Domini, thank you for your insights. I need to get offline too.

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira I have a translation to finish this pm, but will keep an eye out and also ponder further :-)

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

meaningless As regards your Church/religion comment, the Bible uses meaningless (Book of Ecclesiastes, starting in Chapter 1!)

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

@Domini I'll have to look at this again. I'm curious to know what Katarina thinks. In the meantime, I jotted down my translation / explanation of the time-related phrases, hoping it will help us see this through:

a hora que morre: the dying hour; the fading hour
pobreza de hoje: poverty of the today (the present is poor)
consciência de ser rica ontem e amanhã: awareness of being rich yesterday and tomorrow
tempo sem fim: endless time
momento improfícuo e distante: useless and distant moment/ time
sempre, sempre: always, always

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira Just to clarify, I’m not trying to defend my weighty-weightless option in saying this. I think there is probably a better option and I am much more interested in the process than any KudoZ points! It seems to me though that you can still translate them with words referring to lightness and heavinessin the first sentence even if you have chosen not to do so for ligeiro. Even if you introduce an extra nuance. In any case there is still a lightness implied in nimble as it can mean quick and light (Oxford Dictionaries definition).

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira ponderous time also comes to mind, but it still involves a sense of heaviness. And is a lot more syllables so it depends if it fits with he rest of your translation

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

@Domini Yes, that's what they mean, as far as I understand them literally.

Domini Lucas Jan 12, 2019:

@Oliveira Just thinking. But, in meantime, don’t leve-pesado mean light and heavy irrespective of ligeiro?

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 12, 2019:

Hmmm! I'm having trouble fitting either one of the suggested answers in the poem. Being that "fuga ligeira" was translated as "nimble flight", a reference to "weightless" seems out of place. Other than that, I would have preferred Domini's answer. The "slight/onerous" option doesn't seem to resonate. It's a shame because initially it was my favorite translation. So basically I'm back to the drawing board. I thought of "in the smooth course of rugged time". (See https://books.google.com/books?id=FGw3DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT58&lpg=P... The idea here is that the transition (course) of this (rugged) life to the next (if there is next) is smooth, but in the end it's all useless, according to Pessoa. The inherent pessimism in this poem makes me believe he doesn't see any meaning in existence. This can be summed up in the last four lines:

"Always, by day or by night, always, — be it
Varied — the same gaze of disillusionment
From the top of the tower of the church in ruins
Upon the useless plain!"

In the next-to-the-last line there seems to be a subtle reference to religion, which is also useless from his standpoint.

Does this make sense?