Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
Borgia (Pope Alexander VI)
English translation:
Pope Alexander VI, born Rodrigo Borgia*,
Added to glossary by
Wendy Streitparth
Aug 18, 2015 07:33
9 yrs ago
Italian term
Borgia (Pope Alexander VI)
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Religion
Do we always drop papal surnames in English?
Hi, everyone! Thanks in advance for your help! The topic of my text is actually art history, but the text contains references to a lot of popes. The text refers to each pope variously as (for example) Papa Alessandro VI, Papa Alessandro VI Borgia, Papa Borgia, Alessandro VI or Alessandro VI Borgia. My instinct tells me that in English we never use the surname, but I haven't found any source to tell me exactly what the protocol is or why surnames would continue to be used so often in Italian texts but not in English.
If any of you has more experience than me in this field, I'd greatly appreciate your wisdom.
Thanks!
Hi, everyone! Thanks in advance for your help! The topic of my text is actually art history, but the text contains references to a lot of popes. The text refers to each pope variously as (for example) Papa Alessandro VI, Papa Alessandro VI Borgia, Papa Borgia, Alessandro VI or Alessandro VI Borgia. My instinct tells me that in English we never use the surname, but I haven't found any source to tell me exactly what the protocol is or why surnames would continue to be used so often in Italian texts but not in English.
If any of you has more experience than me in this field, I'd greatly appreciate your wisdom.
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +4 | Pope Alexander VI, born Rodrigo Borgia*, |
Wendy Streitparth
|
| 4 +2 | Borgia Pope Alexander VI |
Isabelle Johnson
|
| 4 | Pope Alexander VI, given name Rodrigo Borgia |
LindaLattuca
|
Change log
Aug 25, 2015 15:53: Wendy Streitparth Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
42 mins
Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
45 years experience
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
11
Selected
Pope Alexander VI, born Rodrigo Borgia*,
That's how I would write it.
(* or the Spanish, Italian or Catalan equivalent)
(* or the Spanish, Italian or Catalan equivalent)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
5 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Phil
|
|
| agree |
writeaway
6 hrs
|
|
Thanks, writeaway
|
|
| agree |
NinaBullard
9 hrs
|
|
Many thanks, Nina
|
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| agree |
Helen Pringle
1 day 9 hrs
|
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Many thanks, Helen
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
+2
8 mins
Isabelle Johnson
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Italy
CIOL-certified, humanities, tourism
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Borgia Pope Alexander VI
I think that where the Borgias are concerned you'd better include the surname. I would imagine that the author wants his or her refernce to this notorious family kept in the text.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
P.L.F. Persio
: I totally agree with your explanation; keep the surname!
31 mins
|
|
Thanks!
|
|
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I think you have to provide his full given name.
6 hrs
|
|
I don't agree at all
|
|
| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
7 days
|
|
Thanks!
|
6 hrs
LindaLattuca
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
Italy
25 years of experience in translation
Native in: Italian
Works in: English to Italian, Spanish to Italian, Portuguese to Italian, and 1 more.
Pope Alexander VI, given name Rodrigo Borgia
I would keep the name and surname of a pope.
Reference:
Discussion
Longman History of Italy
Page 37: ... and by the Spanish Borgia popes Calixtus III (1455-58) and Alexander VI (1492-1503) ...
Page 163:
'Nepotism' - if that is not always strictly the right word and relationship - was a characteristic of most of the Renaissance popes, but especially so with the della Rovere Sixtus IV (1471-84), the Borgia Alexander VI (1492-1503) and the Medici Leo X (1513-22) and Clement VII (1523-34).