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convenuto a corpo
Dottor "Rossi", medico chirurgo
Aug 26, 2015 11:59
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Italian term

Rapina

Italian to English Other Law (general) Criminal Law
Hi, I have a doubt about the translation of 'rapina' in this context:

'Rapina aggravata di un equino in danno di Lumia Calogero fu Onofrio, di anni 60, da Palma Montechiaro.'

We're talking about cattle rustling. The criminals point weapons at the wardens and steal the animals. I think it can be qualified as 'robbery' as the criminals use weapons to steal but I am not a 100% sure.

If robbery is the correct translation , would the sentence below be acceptable?

'Aggravated robbery of one equine against Calogero Lumia, son of Onofrio, 60 years old, from Palma Montechiaro. '
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 aggravated robbery of a horse
4 +2 horse theft
4 +1 Robbery
4 horse rustling
4 Horse stealing
3 kidnapping

Discussion

Alison Kennedy Sep 1, 2015:
Thank you I actully enjoy answering interesting questions like yours! Not everday stuff ...
PamelaTh (asker) Sep 1, 2015:
Just wanted to thank everyone for your input in the equine/horse discussion. Since the text it's quite pretentious in Italian too, I might go for "equine" but I still have some time to make a final decision.
Inter-Tra Aug 27, 2015:
Lisa you are right, however often and inaccurately the Italian Noun is used as the Adj with the meaning of 'horse' like in 'carne equina', 'razza equina'
http://dizionari.corriere.it/dizionario_italiano/E/equino.sh...
https://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/equino
James (Jim) Davis Aug 27, 2015:
With Lisa and Ffbest I might use the word equine, as an adjective if I was in pretentious mode "An equine whinny was heard drifting under the door. Jane had a famous laugh". I have just looked it up in the shorter Oxford dictionar and it is "a & n". All it gives for the noun is "noun, a horse". The Dictionary has 270,000 entries c. Definitely only for use in academic zoological contexts as a noun.
Lisa Jane Aug 27, 2015:
otherwise if we knew exactly what the animal in this particular case was, we wouldn't have a problem
Lisa Jane Aug 27, 2015:
Fbbest Yes it is, but also used as a noun to refer to the zoological category and I think using it is the only way to solve the problem unless one uses horses, mules, donkeys etc.
Inter-Tra Aug 27, 2015:
I think the use of the term 'equine' is more related to Zoology and stresses the belonging to the family Equidae
Alison Kennedy Aug 26, 2015:
Aggravated robbery or lifestock rustling?? This is quite interesting given the historical context in Sicily immediately after WWI when cattle and horse rustling was rife. I think, given the context you can use aggravated robbery or theft. It sounds strange to our ears but equine would probably suit your context given that we don't know whether it was a horse or a mule (I don't think the bandits were particularly choosy). The choice is yours. There are some quite good accounts of the period in Sicily online, if you have time to read up. Otherwise, I would take an "executive decision" and move on ...
Lisa Jane Aug 26, 2015:
equine is also a noun so I think it's ok from the oxford dictionary:

noun

A horse or other member of the horse family: they compared the behaviour of humans and equines
More example sentences

Of all the wild equines in the world today, only the plains zebras of Africa are present in large numbers.
They call someone who can communicate with equines a horse whisperer.
Both humans and equines looked uneasy, and some of the soldiers looked practically outraged.
PamelaTh (asker) Aug 26, 2015:
It's the beginning of the 20th Century in Sicily and these are Mafia crimes. . The text continues like this: Rapina aggravata di 20 bovini in danno di Amato Gaetano fu Ignazio, di anni 67 e del Marchese Cannarella Francesco, di Salvatore, di anni 32, da Licata. Delitti consumati il 19 maggio 1920, in ex feudo Passarello, territorio di Licata.
And this is part of the account by one of the criminals "Fatto giorno, abbiamo visto nelle vicinanze otto o nove aratri tirati da buoi; altri bovini erano sciolti. Alle ore 9,30 circa abbiamo dato l'assalto. I contadini si buttarono faccia a terra. Io ed altri liberammo gli animali dagli aratri portando via quindi gli animali bovini tutti che erano 25 o 26. Conducemmo detti animali in contrada Damaso, vicino Canicattì, richiudendoli in una casa abbandonata di proprietà di Lumia Giuseppe per disposizione di Restivo e di Caruso. Ignoro il nome del mezzadro di quelle terre.

I also have a question about equine/horse. I know that you don't use equines much in English but the problem is that in many of these robberies the equines stolen include some mules which are not strictly horses. If equines is really wrong how do I solve this? Thanks.
James (Jim) Davis Aug 26, 2015:
A bit more context (ten or more lines of the source text) might be helpfult. Was this at the time of the Sabine women, or in the centre of Milan last week? Or is it this: http://www.casauno.org/materiali-edili-lumia-calogero-palma-...

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

aggravated robbery of a horse

robbery is a sub-classification of theft. The diference, at least under UK criminal law - and it would appear, under Itaian criminal law, too is violence or threat of violence to persons. Here are both definitions. Italian: "La rapina, nel diritto penale italiano, è il delitto previsto dall'art. 628 c.p.. Tale articolo delinea due figure di rapina, la rapina propria se la violenza è mezzo per ottenere l'impossessamento, rapina impropria se invece serve a mantenere il possesso o ad assicurare a sé o ad altri l'impunità. Under Section 8 of the Theft Act 1968 a person will be guilty of the criminal offence of robbery if they steal, and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, he uses forces on any person or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subjected to force.
Look at your context. But the definitions seems fairly similar.
Hope this helps.
Alison

I would just like to add that you will have to add to your sentence "committed against" as aggravated robbery is a crime and a charge or count.
Peer comment(s):
agree Gad Kohenov : +
2 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you."
+2
39 mins

horse theft

"severe or aggrated are the sentences, punishments and such like but not the theft as such

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Note added at 45 мин (2015-08-26 12:45:43 GMT)
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nonetheless, there is nothing wrong with saying "aggravated horse theft" codes.ohio.gov/orc/2913.02
n... dollars, a violation of this section is aggravated theft, a felony of the third degree. ... (7) If the property stolen is a police dog or horse or an assistance dog and the ... (10) In addition to the penalties described in division (B)(2) of this section, ...
Peer comment(s):
agree EirTranslations
1 hr
thank you, Aquamarine76 !
neutral Alison Kennedy : see the relevant definition of the Italian p.c.
1 hr
agree philgoddard
1 hr
thank you, Phil !
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+1
32 mins

Robbery

yes aggravated robbery if armed with a presumably deadly weapon

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Note added at 48 mins (2015-08-26 12:48:14 GMT)
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Robbery is differentiated from other forms of theft (such as burglary, shoplifting or car theft) by its inherently violent nature (a violent crime);

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery
Peer comment(s):
agree Giovanni Pizzati (X) : This is an armed robbery. Among the types of robbery are armed robbery involving use of a weapon and aggravated robbery involving use of a deadly weapon or something that appears to be a deadly weapon
1 hr
Thanks Giovanni
neutral philgoddard : Surely this implies holding a gun to the horse's head and saying give me your money?
2 hrs
:D
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48 mins

kidnapping

An alternative. Used in many articles related to the Shergar, the famous Irish racehourse. I suppose a lot depends on the nature of the crime and the intent of the criminals.

verb (used with object), kidnapped or kidnaped, kidnapping or kidnaping: to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, especially for use as a hostage or to extract ransom.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576718/The-truth-abo...

It is 25 years since a world-famous racehorse was kidnapped by the IRA, never to be seen again. Now, chief reporter Andrew Alderson has solved the mystery of Shergar's final hours, why his remains have never been found and uncovered the truth about the bungled ransom attempt that led to his demise.


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Note added at 1 hr (2015-08-26 13:16:30 GMT)
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Just to add, I posted my answer as an alternative that is at times used in connection with horses. Perhaps because they are living beings, not inanimate objects, also because a lot depends on the intent of the ciriminals - did they simply want a horse (perhaps to use for illegal horse races, which are unfortunately popular in Italy) or did they take it in order to demand money from the owners?
But I'm the first to say that kidnapping does sound a little odd here, being more often used in connection with humans. Buon lavoro a tutti!
Note from asker:
Actually, they do ask for a ransom afterwards so maybe...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lisa Jane : I don't think it's the case here and usually the criminal kidnaps the subject without being face to face with the owner Indeed-the more context we have, the better we can help-in fact I said 'usually'-if a ransom is involved could also be kidnapping:)
3 mins
Sorry, don't agree. While the suitability of the term with regard to horses is certainly debatable, "kidnapping" has little to do with HOW the crime was committed, and more with its INTENT. Anyway, I'm sure the asker can decide what's best for her :-)
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3 hrs

horse rustling

See 1st Link < Oxford Dictionary
‘a murdered rancher whose cattle were being rustled’
(as noun rustling) ‘horse rustling is a growing problem’

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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-08-26 15:56:28 GMT)
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CATTLE Rustling

:-))) http://modernfarmer.com/2013/09/want-cattle-rustling-special...
Reference:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/rustle

http://sargodhapolice.gov.pk/pages.php?id=61

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21 hrs

Horse stealing

As an alternative to horse rustling. I do think that given the violence, theft would be wrong, because it implies its absence.

https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q="Hors...

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Note added at 21 hrs (2015-08-27 09:16:48 GMT)
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Oh with regard to "equine", since this is a history, which tells a story, and is not a contract, it is sufficient to put "including mules" at an appropriate point in brackets go get the historical accuracy.
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