Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Jun 28, 2018 10:01
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Sound abzunehmen
German to English
Tech/Engineering
Music
electric guitar
Das Sustain ist gut und die Saitenlage erfüllt die "5-Cent-Regel" - d.h., wenn man ein 5-Cent-Stück auf die Bundstäbchen des 12. und 13. Bundes schiebt, sollte es keinen nennenswerten Abstand zwischen der Münze und der tiefen E-Seite geben.
Das klappt und keine Saite schnarrt, auch wenn man etwas heftiger anschlägt. Bundrein ist die Gitarre ebenfalls: im 12. Bund gibt es praktisch keine Abweichungen, weder vom Hören her noch was die Anzeige des Stimmgeräts angeht.
Die Saiten sind Geschmackssache: ich habe die ab-Werk-Saiten durch einen 11er-Satz Elixir-Polyweb ersetzt.
Der Klang ist für den Preis völlig in Ordnung. Eine leichte Tendenz zu "blechern" aber noch im gut erträglichen Bereich.
Eine brauchbare Gitarre jedenfalls - auch durch die Möglichkeit, den ***Sound abzunehmen***. Bei einem XXXXXX-Preamp kann man ja nicht all zu viel falsch machen.
Das klappt und keine Saite schnarrt, auch wenn man etwas heftiger anschlägt. Bundrein ist die Gitarre ebenfalls: im 12. Bund gibt es praktisch keine Abweichungen, weder vom Hören her noch was die Anzeige des Stimmgeräts angeht.
Die Saiten sind Geschmackssache: ich habe die ab-Werk-Saiten durch einen 11er-Satz Elixir-Polyweb ersetzt.
Der Klang ist für den Preis völlig in Ordnung. Eine leichte Tendenz zu "blechern" aber noch im gut erträglichen Bereich.
Eine brauchbare Gitarre jedenfalls - auch durch die Möglichkeit, den ***Sound abzunehmen***. Bei einem XXXXXX-Preamp kann man ja nicht all zu viel falsch machen.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +1 | amplify |
Ramey Rieger (X)
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4 +2 | use the built-in pickup |
Graeme Currie
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4 | to plug in |
Erik Freitag
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4 | the option of going electric |
Herbmione Granger
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3 | pick up the sound |
Michael Martin, MA
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Proposed translations
+1
52 mins
Selected
amplify
This must be an acoustic guitar? Alternatives, should it be electric:
...with pickups/pottis
...with pickups/pottis
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Herbmione Granger
: Amplify is fine. They're just saying it's also electric, right? I like your suggestion for the whole phrase in the discussion: with the option of amplifying the sound. //Hallelujah!
13 hrs
|
Can I hear a hallelujah?
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Herlzich Dank, Rieger!"
24 mins
pick up the sound
That's what that sounds like to me.
1 hr
German term (edited):
Sound abnehmen
to plug in
The common way of saying this would imho be that the guitar can be plugged in.
I'd avoid "pick up" (too close to "pickup", a specific guitar part this particular guitar may or may not have). "Amplify" doesn't help either, as you can amplify pretty much everything. The point is that in this case you don't need a microphone (and possibly no preamp either), you can directly plug the guitar into an amp.
I'd avoid "pick up" (too close to "pickup", a specific guitar part this particular guitar may or may not have). "Amplify" doesn't help either, as you can amplify pretty much everything. The point is that in this case you don't need a microphone (and possibly no preamp either), you can directly plug the guitar into an amp.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Ramey Rieger (X)
: Hi Erik. Yes, Potis in German, they still give me a giggle, too (Dixieklos). Still purely grammatically, you cannot plug in a sound and I am dead certain he's talking about amplifying the sound (okay, lightning, strike me dead)
4 hrs
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I never talked about plugging in a sound - it's plugging in a guitar! Again: This is not primarily about amplifying the sound - you could well do that with a microphone and an amp. The crucial point here is that you don't need a microphone!
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+2
6 hrs
use the built-in pickup
Looking at the discussion, I think others have homed in on the issue here. I am quite confident that the function of the text here is to say "this guitar also has a built-in pickup". Yes, it can "be plugged in", but that is too vague and not really very idiomatic. As a player, I would say the important information here is that this super-budget electro-acoustic instrument has a usable pickup already aboard.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Erik Freitag
: I certainly take on board that "plug in" may not be idiomatic!
5 mins
|
agree |
Ramey Rieger (X)
: I posted the suggestion 'amplify', now can you tell me what other purpose pickups have other than to amplify the sound? I don't object to your suggestion in the least, just curious.
9 mins
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Of course it is about amplification. The problem with your suggestion is I think the original text is saying that the guitar has a built-in pickup (+preamp). That's the important thing. You can amplify a flute, but it won't have a pickup out the box.
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13 hrs
German term (edited):
die Möglichkeit, den Sound abzunehmen
the option of going electric
With the built-in option of going electric.
I don't have this.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonabnehmer
https://trustyguitar.com/acoustic-guitar-pickup/
In order to amplify your guitar, you will need a pickup. A pickup translates the vibrations of the guitar strings into electrical signals that can then be amplified.
That means you either need to purchase an acoustic-electric guitar that is already equipped to work with an amplifier or retrofit your acoustic with a pickup (which, thankfully, is easy to do)
I don't have this.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonabnehmer
https://trustyguitar.com/acoustic-guitar-pickup/
In order to amplify your guitar, you will need a pickup. A pickup translates the vibrations of the guitar strings into electrical signals that can then be amplified.
That means you either need to purchase an acoustic-electric guitar that is already equipped to work with an amplifier or retrofit your acoustic with a pickup (which, thankfully, is easy to do)
Discussion
"As I linked below, it is called a pickup in English, whether installed on a guitar or a record player. We don't use a verb."
I don't see how I misinterpreted the statement below. But thanks for the clarification.
PS
Forget about the mic examples for a moment. Even if you limit quotes to pickups, you'll get:
"The most basic acoustic pickup is the soundboard transducer, which sticks to the face of the guitar to pick up the vibrations through the top."
https://www.guitarfella.com/best-guitar-pickups/acoustic
"The pickups are there to pick up the sound just like a microphone picks up a vocalist."
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/guitar-pickups-dont-m...
"The transducer is unable to pick up the overtones, ambience, and true acoustic..."
http://www.strumviews.com/blog/which-pickup-should-i-put-my-...
"Since it is not possible to pick up a nylon string magnetically..."
https://www.lakewood-guitars.com/pickup_systems_past_ss.php
"The role of a pick up is simple. They pick up the sound produced by the guitar and create an electric signal which then..."
https://guitarlisty.com/best-electric-guitar-reviews
Best
Isn't English wonderful? :)
You definitely do.
"Most are built-in to a guitar or a resonator and some are made to pick up the sound of your acoustic instrument that has no pickup previously installed into it."
https://www.myerspickups.com/blog/2017/8/9/august-28-2017-my...
"An acoustic guitar tuner will have a built in mic to pick up the sound."
https://guitarsecrets.com/guitar_lessons/guitar tuning.htm
"This is the pickup selector switch, and it lets you choose which pickup on your guitar you would like to use to pick up the sound vibrations."
https://takelessons.com/live/guitar/parts-of-a-guitar
"Let's explore how mic choice and placement affect the sound you
pick up from a variety of acoustic instruments."
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/3799/files/How_Mic_Pl...
"...simply playing towards the mic and letting it pick up the sound for the PA or amplifier."
http://www.chandlerbluesband.com/blog/2015/5/26/gear-part-ii...
"...allow you to still hear both notes and be better able to pick up the oscillations..."
https://sixstringacoustic.com/how-to-tune-a-guitar-illustrat...
Where the term comes from:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammophon
Die Blütezeit erlebte das Grammophon gegen Ende der 1920er Jahre, danach wurden Schallplatten zunehmend elektrisch abgenommen und über einen elektrischen Verstärker wiedergegeben. Von verschiedenen Herstellern wurden ab dieser Zeit auch Sets angeboten, mit denen ein Grammophon zur elektrischen Tonabnahme umgebaut werden konnte; entweder ersetzte man dabei lediglich die Schalldose durch einen elektrischen Abnehmer oder montierte einen kompletten zusätzlichen Tonarm.
As I linked below, it is called a pickup in English, whether installed on a guitar or a record player. We don't use a verb.
https://www.thomann.de/de/onlineexpert_page_akustikgitarre_a...
Yes, it's a mic here, but, again, that isn't the point. This has little do with you not being able to use the same word in every instance. It just doesn't mean what people seem to assume it means.
So if you want to rewrite this piece, fine with me (and "amplify your playing" is indeed an interesting phrase). I'm just keeping an eye on the glossary, since I find it useful (from time to time).
Best
Here you got your amplify examples:
https://www.kirstein.de/Akustikgitarre-Tonabnehmer
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/akustik-gitarre-verstae...
They say "verstärken" because there's no reason for a German to use "abnehmen" instead.
By contrast: "Bauteil an elektrisch verstärkten Musikinstrumenten, welches zur Abnahme des Klanges dient."
http://www.gitarrenunterricht-in-darmstadt.de/Glossar.html
That's why it's called "pickup." And, straight from the horse's mouth:
https://www.thomann.de/de/onlineexpert_page_gitarrenzubehoer...
You are probably going to hit me over the head with the third example there because it says "elektrisch verstärkbar machen"; but that's where "verstärkbar" was used, not "abnehmbar"; see also the ex. above.
As soon as it gets to "Ampabnahme" (cf https://www.thomann.de/de/mikrofone_fuer_ampabnahme.html ) and the like, "amplify" is clearly nonsensical.
Best wishes
Moreover, you should be able to remember the verso question, where I didn't even disagree with your answer, really, and made your options part of the glossary entry.
I can't do that here because I have a bad feeling that it'll be unhelpful in nearly all situations. As you well know, I don't care about the points.
Second, I still think we're talking past each other. Whether you or anyone else approves of these statements and whether someone used amplify + sound in combination is not the point and it wasn't a few days ago either. See the ostrich example, where I, as a biologist (just an example), could say both statements (flightless + wings to stabilize while running) are true. That doesn't mean they are the same. Likewise, abnehmen and amplify aren't either.
[...]
The Taylor Expression System will amplify your playing in a natural way, making the Taylor 455ce great for acoustic playing and for plugging in.
https://reverb.com/item/2726292-washburn-dk20cet-acoustic-el...
The Washburn DK20CET Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric Guitar features the Washburn WT-82 acoustic-electric preamp and a piezo bridge pickup to amplify your playing with great tone.
https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-cc-140sce-concert-electro...
this powerful little Preamp allows you to sculpt the tone and sound you want - helping you to amplify your playing as accurately as possible - making the Fender CC-140SCE the ideal budget-friendly acoustic guitar for aspiring players, seasoned guitarists and everyone in between
I, a guitar player and owner (electric and acoustic, no hybrids), approve these messages (preferring faithfully over accurately). I suppose a performer who likes to move around while playing would be interested in something like this.
For recording: https://www.soundandrecording.de/tutorials/recording-e-gitar...
Eine Elektrische Gitarre (auch E-Gitarre, Elektro-Gitarre oder Stromgitarre genannt) ist eine für elektrische Tonabnahme entwickelte Gitarre. Sie setzt im Gegensatz zur akustischen Gitarre nicht primär auf einen akustischen Klangkörper zur Verstärkung der Saitenschwingungen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_guitar
An electric guitar is a guitar that uses one or more pickups to convert the vibration of its strings into electrical signals. The vibration occurs when a guitarist strums, plucks, fingerpicks, or taps the strings. The pickup used to sense the vibration generally uses electromagnetic induction to do so, though other technologies exist. In any case, the signal generated by an electric guitar is too weak to drive a loudspeaker, so it is sent to a guitar amplifier before being sent to the speaker/speakers, which converts it into audible sound.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_cartridge
Or pick up the sound (which I addressed earlier).
http://www.thomas-wilhelm.net/veroeffentlichung/E-Gitarre.pd...
Eine abwechselnde Hin- und Wegbewegung von Eisen vor der Spule erzeugt ein in der Stärke wechselndes Magnetfeld und damit eine Wechselspannung mit der gleichen Frequenz, mit der die Saite schwingt. Der Tonabnehmer ist damit als ein Bewegungssensor *anzusehen*, der eine mechanische Schwingung in eine elektrische Spannung umsetzt.
"The 6.35mm plug can be plugged into sound equipment such as a guitar amplifier, mixer (line in, instrument in or unbalanced in),..."
"Abnehmen" (almost) never means amplify. By contrast, here's another amp ex.: "If you want to capture the sound of your live guitar amp, you can use a condenser..."
https://www.reidys.com/blog/recording-music-at-home-the-esse...
"'Capture the sound' could be confused with recording it."
Two days ago, I said, "Ofc, you can also do that with a mic and, ofc, you would have to add something..."
You could've done what you'd call Trick 17 in German (as was apparent in the example I gave). Something like: You don't need a mic to capture the sound of your guitar. Keeps it sufficiently vague.
Else, I'd have used Graeme's suggestion. Using amplify will already clash with the next sentence in the review and the pickup is nowhere to be found.
What was done here is akin to solving a crossword puzzle, which is fine if you're a (sub)editor. But it has little do with translation. You might've as well said it's a black guitar. That's true but that wasn't the point. However, what's done is done.
Best
"Capture the sound" could be confused with recording it. But you are not really doing *anything* to the sound unless the guitar is plugged in :)
For the sax player: http://piezobarrel.com/instructions.htm
Ofc, you can also do that with a mic and, ofc, you would have to add something to make "capture" work, as was done here: https://noviceguitar.com/acoustic-guitar-pickups-an-importan...
I won't disagree if you want to specifically name the things that this is about. In fact, I posted the Wiki link about Tonabnehmer almost a day ago. And I did look at that review. As you can see, I didn't post a suggestion.
I don't consider this "academic"; I merely said I won't disagree but I don't see the need to change so much.
Last one:
"In dem Fall den du beschreibst könnte ich ja aber auch einfach gleich während dem Spielen vom Amp den Sound abnehmen."
https://gitarrenboard.de/printthread.php?tid=28498
Used to be a Sax player if that counts for anything.
Enjoy the sunny day
Capturing the sound is a good phrase to have under your belt. However, it would sound very strange with the surrounding text. Also, I can capture the sound with an external mic.
And yes, we are all saying that it does what an acoustic-electric guitar is expected to do. And we are suggesting what we expect/would like to see here in the translated text.
The function of the passage in question is just to mention that this is an electro-acoustic guitar. Getting hung up on the precise rendering of 'abnehmen' without considering the function of the word in the text is pretty academic. Both 'capture' and 'amplify' are decent translations of 'abnehmen' in the right context, but here they would not fit as far as I can see, because the purpose and function of the text is to give the reader information about the product, and they don't do that (and I humbly submit that my proposal (mentioning the built-in pickup and preamplifier) does.
Removed the second "context"; what I meant was that the meaning of the word doesn't change whether it's about a tuning device, a pickup or an amp. We're still talking about music. I wasn't saying you could use it for a piece about Weight Watchers.
In any case, duty calls; OK, more like family duties this time.
But I hope all of you have an enjoyable weekend
HUH?
Er wollte zehn Kilo abnehmen.
Er hat die Mikros über eine DI-box abgenommen, am Mischpult angeschlossen und über die Boxen weitergegeben.
Ich war satt und könnte Ihr kein einzigen Stück Kuchen abnehmen.
https://ask.audio/articles/mixing-tips-how-to-improve-your-d...
"The magnetic pickup captures the strings and adds warmth while the omni-directional condenser mic conveys the instrument’s resonance, airiness, and..."
https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/how-to-ch...
"My research on pickups has led me to brands of bridgeplate pickups that I think do as well as can be done to accurately capture the sound of a guitar..."
http://www.bobgramann.com/pickups.html
"You don’t really get to capture the sound of the tone ring, the pot or the resonator."
http://www.mixdownmag.com.au/guide-recording-banjos
"You can place this pickup over the soundhole, and it will capture the vibrations from each string to give you a balanced sound."
https://sound-unsound.com/6-best-acoustic-guitar-pickups-com...
"They directly capture the sound of the instrument and convert it into an electrical signal which can then be amplified."
http://www.gamlinsmusic.co.uk/acoustic-guitar-pickups
Don't see much wrong with it.
Best wishes
Look, ladies, I am in a nearly untenable situation: I don't like literal translations. I like "with the option of" but I was looking for something more "vague," since not everyone seems to be on board with either pickup or amplify. BTW, I never said it was about a tuning device in this context; that was merely to show that the meaning of the word doesn't change. Also, I don't see what energy this ST has; it's a technical term.
To put it another way:
I tell you that an ostrich is a flightless bird and your translation says that the ostrich uses wings to maintain its balance while running.
Both statements are true, but you did not translate what I said.
Likewise, abnehmen means you're on the receiving end.
[....]
@Everyone While there are other things that could be done with the signal, I think that amplification is the main purpose of the pickups. Not sure, but I don't think that this type of guitar would be directly plugged into a recording device.
-It's also equipped for amplification. (I'm favoring this one.)
-It has pickups. (Lacking the energy of the ST.)
2. You're putting the cart before the horse. The point in this forum thread (just read it) is that there isn't any sound whatsoever because the signal is not getting through. You can amp it all you want. Nothing will happen.
3. Again as in 2; actually, in this case, it would be a severe mistranslation. See also the EN link.
Don't seem to be in disagreement about 4.
"This is less about semantics.."
If it were just about that. I haven't seen you do this before, but since someone else agrees, I will have to make it clear: You are altering the meaning of the text to make it fit your interpretation. Yes, what you're saying makes sense, but that isn't the point. We could talk about "render," but not about amplify.
There are so many links about this. It's already quite obvious here:
http://www.richieloidl.at/rider
Or:
https://gitarrenlehreronline.de/die-8-besten-tools-fuer-gita...
This is about a "Stimmgerät"(!!!). If you still want to tell me that Abnahme means amplify, then I don't know what to say.
Best wishes
2. Transferring the sound to which end? to amplify! (make louder/audible)
3. Again, the issue is amplification of the entire sound, hence the mike.
4. Yes, a recording situation as I thought.
It's less about semantics and more about what the pickups and pre-amp do.
Second, you must be looking at different examples.
First one: "Abnehmen des Amps." Amplifying the amp, really?
Second: "Grafikkarte" This is about "Sound weitergeben" because the graphics card doesn't seem to support the option he wants. Nothing to do with amplify.
Third: "Bruchteil des ganzen Sounds...in seiner Gesamtheit abnehmen wollt." Again, nothing to do with amplify. It's about capturing the entire experience. Here's basically the EN version:
"Subsequently, a pick-up system will only capture a small element of the bigger picture; only a microphone can capture the true diversity an acoustic instrument and the room it’s in."
http://soundhub.audio/how-to-record-and-mix-acoustic-guitars
And, similar to the Rolling Stones link:
"Most people find that microphones capture the sound of their guitar more realistically than pickups, but pickups can be effective in some recording situations."
http://acousticguitar.com/recording-with-pickups
None of the examples are about amplifying. Where I do agree with you is that you don't have to change the text at all. Just keep it a bit less specific.
Best wishes
So there's an integrated pre-amp, what else could it be but amplify?
1. the resonance: Das Sustain ist gut und die Saitenlage erfüllt die "5-Cent-Regel" - d.h., wenn man ein 5-Cent-Stück auf die Bundstäbchen des 12. und 13. Bundes schiebt, sollte es keinen nennenswerten Abstand zwischen der Münze und der tiefen E-Seite geben.
2. the action: Das klappt und keine Saite schnarrt, auch wenn man etwas heftiger anschlägt. Bundrein ist die Gitarre ebenfalls: im 12. Bund gibt es praktisch keine Abweichungen, weder vom Hören her noch was die Anzeige des Stimmgeräts angeht.
3. the sound (for the price) Der Klang ist für den Preis völlig in Ordnung. Eine leichte Tendenz zu "blechern" aber noch im gut erträglichen Bereich.
Eine brauchbare Gitarre jedenfalls
(which can be amplified/electronically rendered over/onto another device (PA system, recording device, effect box/system...)
https://www.amazona.de/test-vox-ad30-vt-gitarrenverstaerker/...
"Meinst über die Grafikkarte den Sound abnehmen?"
https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/5-1-sound-am-pc.13...
"So fängt ein Tonabnehmer nur einen Bruchteil des ganzen Sounds ein. Wenn Ihr aber ein akustisches Instrument in seiner Gesamtheit abnehmen wollt, kommt Ihr an einem Mikrofon nicht vorbei."
https://www.shure.de/musiker/entdecken/informativ/akustikgit...
"Pete spielt seit etwa 10 Jahren Strats, die zusätzlich durch einen Piezo-artigen Tonabnehmer einen Sound abnehmen, der sehr Westerngitarren-nah ist."
http://forum.rollingstone.de/foren/topic/the-who-by-numbers/...
abnehmen = record, capture (also "einfangen," as in one of the examples above).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonabnehmer
Whether you need an amplifier isn't the point.
Best
But yes, thanks, I see that now. By the way, before I wrote this, I had wanted to agree with you and post references.
Doesn't change the fact that I think this change to the text is unnecessary. You will also find references to "Sound abnehmen" (I thought about "ab-/anzapfen" first) by pickups (or even microphones, but that's clearly not the case here) and this is a review. In essence, he could be talking about both options, regardless of the next sentence. Agree with you, though, that it's not amplify and that "pick up" wouldn't be a good option.
Best
https://www.thomann.de/de/harley_benton_eax_500tl_black.htm
It has a pickup alright, and an integrated preamp, so it can be plugged in, which is what "abnehmen" refers to in this case.
http://www.theguitarmagazine.com/articles/how-to-record-elec...
http://www.theguitarmagazine.com/articles/how-to-record-acou...
It has a pickup (so you shouldn't use the verb too) and cannot be plugged in, as far as I could see.
Best