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Feinspitze
fallen- und schwerpunktmäßig
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
May 24, 2019 10:58
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

Einschließtäter

German to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Die den Depots und Ausstellungsbereichen vorgelagerten Bereiche sind ... überwacht, so dass auch Einschließtäter erfasst werden, bevor diese zu den besonders gefährdeten Bereichen vordringen können.

Seems to be prevalent in museums.

Members of the public with an intent to rob who turn up with 5 minutes to closing and hide themselves somewhere?
Proposed translations (English)
5 trapped burglars
4 hide-behind or locked-in intruder
4 break-out burglar
3 closing time robbers/robbery
3 sleeper-burglar(s); lock-themselves-in intruder(s)
3 perpetrators/burglars hiding on the premises until closing time
3 Break-out burglar
References
Some ideas for more research
Change log

May 24, 2019 19:12: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Law/Patents"

Discussion

Adrian MM. May 25, 2019:
@ asker - 'answer found elsewhere' Perhaps the asker can be gracious enough to put us out of our misery and tell what answer had been found or relayed privately.

Meantime, an ex-London Met copper & private investigator relative of mine tells me that, in UK police jargon, these thieves are called 'sleeper - or bed & breakfast - job burglars'.
Michael Martin, MA May 25, 2019:
@Björn You're quite right, I didn't see those other suggestions. Nothing wrong with the D box. I just don't have the patience to scour the discussion threads before I post. Besides, people should really post their ideas as answers - and post them sooner rather than later. This way, we have them on record and I won't be able to ignore them any longer.
Once I've made an entry, I'll get the notifications, of course..

Anyway, "hide behind" works the way "left behind".does. "Stay behind" sounds too innocent to me, not indicative enough of illicit activity. "Locked in" is simply the state of being locked in, outside intervention or not.

But I don't think this is a legal term either.

Oops - just noticed this question is closed... Classic cop-out.
Steffen Walter May 25, 2019:
"Interesting" The discussion entry posted by "thetranscriptor" (24 May 2019, 17:23) has since been deleted.
Steffen Walter May 25, 2019:
Museums are but one relevant area "Einschließtäter" is a legal term indeed, in my view - it's also used in contexts other than museums, such as banks (in relation to alarm systems).

See, for example,

https://www.stmi.bayern.de/assets/stmi/sus/polizei/ic6_poliz... (p. 46)

https://bravors.brandenburg.de/br2/sixcms/media.php/66/ÜEA_A... (p. 12)
"Wertschutzschränke einschließlich Geldautomaten, Geldautomatensysteme, Depositsysteme und Tag-/Nacht-Tresoranlagen"
Björn Vrooman May 25, 2019:
And although the theft of a painting may create abject terror, it's not enough to turn the burglar into a "sleeper" cell.

So, we're back to Ramey's closing time/hidden and Alison's hide-in/wait-in, plus my stay behind, all of which clearly describe what's going on.

@Steffen
Is this is legal, though? I don't want it to be confused with some court docs or something. It's an internal doc created by the museum, I assume.

Best wishes

PS@Ramey
Thank you; same to you! Finally, summer's around the corner! A week or so ago, it was almost zero degrees here--temperatures only bumblebees could enjoy. Well, they're just as important for the whole flower business =)
Björn Vrooman May 25, 2019:
My concern is... ...that this is unduly influencing the outcome of this Q, considering the possible vote split owing to the number of answers posted.

Also, how do we know that the asker has only two profiles? Are the Russians involved? Do we need R. Mueller to look into this?

Joke aside, I'm not sure why the asker, who is free to choose any of the answers, would feel it necessary to agree somewhere.

@Michael
Regarding your "If the translation is too wordy, it will sound like...": You do realize that Alison and I had suggested three well-established terms before you posted an answer?

Many of the suggestions appear--in one way or another--in the series I watch. When used in context (something you are usually fond of), most don't make sense to me.

While stay-behind does make sense, hide-behind sounds somewhat odd. Hide behind what? The closet? Marie Antoinette's skirt?

Locked-in (as a participle) or lock-themselves-in typically suggests some kind of outside intervention to lock someone up somewhere or something that happened by accident.

[...]
Steffen Walter May 24, 2019:
I've just changed ... ... the categories of this question because this is a legal term.
Steffen Walter May 24, 2019:
Looks like two profiles indeed, Björn ... ... which, strictly speaking, is not permitted according to ProZ.com rules. But perhaps the asker can tell us more about it.
Michael Martin, MA May 24, 2019:
No worries, Björn Probably won't be too long before i have to get on that same soapbox again..
Ramey Rieger (X) May 24, 2019:
Have a WONDERFUL weekend, the world is SO lush right now - and I don't mean drunk, but maybe the bees are just that.
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
Perhaps Well, at least, I didn't miss out on Michael's Sermon of the Day. I really missed that going into the weekend. Now, I can be at peace.

Best wishes

Enjoy your Friday!

https://twitter.com/kununu_US/status/941747388213055488
Ramey Rieger (X) May 24, 2019:
OH you're quick! Highly motivated translator?
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
Hello Ramey 1) Deutschenglisch posted a question.
2) You answered.
3) Deutschenglisch replied: "Not sure its all that idiomatic though"
4) I started posting and said: "Nevertheless, Ramey's 'closing time' is indeed helpful..." Plus, I suggested stay(-)behind.
5) A profile named "thetranscriptor" then said: "didnt say it wasnt useful just said it wasnt very idiomatic. I went for something different but I like stay-behind too"
6) This profile subsequently agreed with the second answerer.

Never mind that you had already mentioned stowaway and that I agree with Birgit about sleeper, but that's a bit odd.

Unless a d-box post was deleted prior to my posts or someone with multiple personality disorder joined the discussion, the asker has two profiles.

Best
Ramey Rieger (X) May 24, 2019:
HÄH?? What do you mean?
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
Wait I quote:
"thetranscriptor
17:23

didnt say it wasnt useful just said it wasnt very idiomatic. I went for something different but I like stay-behind too"

Does this mean the asker has two profiles and is agreeing with those who answer the Qs?
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
Thanks! Though I probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere without your input =)

Best wishes
Ramey Rieger (X) May 24, 2019:
@Björn You are a research GENIUS!
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
And again "One concern of security is the stay behind theft. Museums usually have good motion detection that can detect someone who hides in, say, a restroom, then comes out after closing to steal when guards have left the galleries."
http://www.stevekeller.com/SteveKellerandAssociates/Museum_S...

UK, quote by Tate’s Director of Programmes, Sandy Nairne:
"I saw the onward route taken by the guard, surrounded, so it appeared to me, with places where thieves might hide after closing time – the back stairs? Behind partitions on the mezzanine?...It was already clear that this theft was of a kind known as a ‘stay-behind’."
http://artwatch.org.uk/dicing-with-art-and-earning-approval

Am not going to google for more.
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
And here you got it:
"Museum parlance for somebody who enters a gallery as a visitor through the normal route and remains after hours is a 'stay behind.' A bizarre theft involving a stay behind (possibly better categorized as a protest rather than a serious attempt to steal) occurred at London’s National Gallery early one morning in August 1961. "
https://www.securityinformed.com/insights/museums-security-m...

Best
Björn Vrooman May 24, 2019:
@deutschenglisch Yes, there is such a thing as a closing time robbery, though that usually means, e.g., the bank doors are locked for the day and you're trying to be the last customer who remains.

Nevertheless, Ramey's "closing time" is indeed helpful. Just search for "after closing hours" on these pages:
https://www.amazon.com/Art-Thief-Novel-Noah-Charney-ebook/dp...
https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/protecting-cu...
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/arts/design/kunsthal-rott...
https://harvardmagazine.com/1997/03/biblio/biblio.text.html

Or "after closing time":
"...remaining in a public building after closing time"
https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/BTB_23_2K_4.pdf

And here you get:
"ARCA Blog: Three thieves had remained in the gallery after closing time (this kind of theft is known as a 'stay-behind');"
http://art-crime.blogspot.com/2011/08/part-one-interview-wit...

[...]

Proposed translations

21 mins

closing time robbers/robbery

http://training.cuna.org/playpage/iPad/TODs/FC101MI/workbook...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 35 mins (2019-05-24 11:33:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

HI DE! Hmmm, idiomatic? The text doesn't seem very idiomatic, do you mean colloquial? I searched for lock-in/shut-in/hidden/stowaway perpetrators, didn't turn up any results though. This was as close as I came to a single-word translation. Let's wait and see what the others come up with. Happy translating!
Note from asker:
yes explains what it means very well. Not sure its all that idiomatic though..
Your suggestion does not sound very idiomatic so I went with something else. Thanks for your input.
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3 hrs

sleeper-burglar(s); lock-themselves-in intruder(s)

Meets the classic legal definition of a burglary, though whether - colloquially - 'hide- or stow-away' (UK police slang) magpies and gannets is the answer looked for is another matter.

Täter > offender(s) no doubt short for Stratäter > criminal(s).




Example sentence:

I have recently been the victim of a sleeper burglary ..

Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food

Reference:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/burglar

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3479377/Intruder-arrested-Heathrow-major-security-breach-sees-break-security-fence-lock-cockpit-park

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4 hrs

perpetrators/burglars hiding on the premises until closing time

I also did some googling and found various news reports of burglars hiding until closing/the store closed. I am with Ramey and do not think there is something idimatic in English for this. I would simply go with the flow and use the description rather than invent something that might not be easily understood. Also, words like sleeper (as in secret agents activated when needed) or stowaway (ships and planes immediately come to mind) carry connotations that I think might be confusing in this context.

Also, not limited to museums, seem to happen quite often in large US stores...
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5 hrs

hide-behind or locked-in intruder

"Space detection provides an excellent method to detect the hide-behind or locked-in intruder." http://www.messagenetwork.com/alarms/faq1.html

If the translation is too wordy, it will sound like an explanation, not a translation. We should probably resist the temptation to find linguistic expression for every nuance we read into a German source term. In many cases, such nuances are not made explicit there either. Many terms become established eventually not because the form is super accurate or descriptive but because they're memorable for other reasons.
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1 day 6 hrs

break-out burglar

I would suggest that this may be a possible solution. There are not really a lot of references, my guess is because it's a rather rare crime.
Reference:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/break-out-burglar-convicted-after-hiding-in-stores-until-closing-1.4334703

https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-53.pdf

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1 day 6 hrs

Break-out burglar

Please see links. It seems to be a rather rare crime, not many references are available.
Reference:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/break-out-burglar-convicted-after-hiding-in-stores-until-closing-1.4334703

https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-53.pdf

Something went wrong...
3 days 5 hrs

trapped burglars

burglars who can't get out because the came in a window that is high off the ground on the inside for example.
Reference:

http://www.linguee.com

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Reference comments

4 hrs
Reference:

Some ideas for more research

(N.B. Björn's helpful discussion entries appeared while I was preparing this, but I'll post anyway)

Electronic and optical systems should complement mechanical safeguards to monitor the areas structurally protected, and to activate an alarm in case of a crime (burglary or lock-in).
…
In addition [to] mere perimeter safeguards, “trap protection monitoring” should also be incorporated to detect locked-in burglars as early as possible.

Theft by and/or following "sneak in" and/or "lock in" are special types of theft and are dealt with in the same way as burglaries. In these cases, the perpetrator hides in the museum or utility rooms which give him fairly easy access to the artefacts and collectors’ items, making it possible for him to complete the crime after opening hours.
https://www.apsei.org.pt/media/recursos/documentos-de-outras...

The above is translation of the following German document.

Mechanische Sicherungen sollten durch elektronische und optische Systeme ergänzt werden, um die bauseitig mechanisch gesicherten Bereiche zu überwachen und im Fall einer Straftat (Einbruch oder Einschlusstat) eine Alarmmeldung zu generieren.
…
Neben der reinen Außenhautsicherung sollte auch eine Fallenüberwachung verwirklicht werden, um Einschlusstäter frühzeitig zu erkennen.

Diebstahl durch bzw. nach Einschleichen und/oder Einschließen lassen stellen Sonderformen dar und wird wie Einbruchdiebstahl behandelt. Hierbei verharrt der Täter im Museum oder in Nebenräumen, die ihm einen relativ leichten Zugang zu den Kunst- und Sammlungsgegenständen ermöglichen, um nach Beendigung des Tagesbetriebs die Tat zu vollenden.
https://shop.vds.de/de/download/8aa8f8f491e66c8493eff9efdc57...

Area protection is also sometimes called volumetric protection. The sensors used for this purpose protect the interior spaces of a business or residence. These devices provide coverage whether or not the perimeter is penetrated and are especially useful in detecting the “stay-behind” criminal.

Area Protection
Area protection is designed to detect the presence of a person within an interior room or space within a facility. This method is used to detect intruders who were able to bypass the perimeter detection system or for “stay-behind” burglars who set off the perimeter system, but are able to hide within the facility until the all clear is given.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/protec...

hide-in burglar
One who hides inside a protected premises before closing time with the intent of committing theft undetected after closing time. He would then trip the alarm upon breaking out and make a fast getaway before police have a chance to respond.
stay-behind burglar - Same as HIDE-IN BURGLAR
wait-in burglar - See HIDE-IN BURGLAR
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9VmjH8OOYSgC&pg=PA221&lp...

As with a PIR, an ultrasonic detector would detect a “lock in” or concealed intruder by that person's movement.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HJMHsg41xLUC&pg=PA127&dq...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Björn Vrooman : Sorry, I should post more references, but it's such a nuisance editing them, especially if something comes out wrong when you're typing too fast. Stay behind seems to be the term of "art" (what a wordplay); also like your second-to-last link. / Indeed!
8 mins
Thanks, Björn. (What an odd question this was in the end! The asker went with something else)
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