Feb 2, 2017 17:48
7 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
proper Kameralistisch
German to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
public authorities
Wie wenig zielorientiert, realistisch und – ja – (proper kameralistisch) gedacht wird, zeigt sich etwa mit den sogenannten unbegleiteten minderjährigen Flüchtlingen.
The next sentence is:
Allein das Land Nordrhein-Westfalen, notorisch knapp bei Kasse, hat 13.600 solcher Flüchtlinge und gibt hierfür aktuell 632 Millionen Euro pro Jahr aus – bei Monatskosten von 4.500 Euro pro Kind.
My translation so far:
"How little thought is given to goals, how unrealistic it is and, yes, improper from a budget point of view, can be seen by the example of unaccompanied minor refugees."
Kameralistische Buchfuehrung is single-entry bookkeeping, but I am not sure how to incorporate that into the sentence. I am pretty sure what is meant is the overall concept of bookkeeping, accounting, budget etc, rather than the fact that it is single-entry booking and not double-entry. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
The next sentence is:
Allein das Land Nordrhein-Westfalen, notorisch knapp bei Kasse, hat 13.600 solcher Flüchtlinge und gibt hierfür aktuell 632 Millionen Euro pro Jahr aus – bei Monatskosten von 4.500 Euro pro Kind.
My translation so far:
"How little thought is given to goals, how unrealistic it is and, yes, improper from a budget point of view, can be seen by the example of unaccompanied minor refugees."
Kameralistische Buchfuehrung is single-entry bookkeeping, but I am not sure how to incorporate that into the sentence. I am pretty sure what is meant is the overall concept of bookkeeping, accounting, budget etc, rather than the fact that it is single-entry booking and not double-entry. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +1 | balancing the budget |
Michael Martin, MA
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3 | Pretty naive/irresponsible |
phillee
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3 | in terms of proper cameralistic accounting |
Marc Svetov
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3 | in true bureaucratic fashion |
Wendy Streitparth
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References
Wikipedia |
philgoddard
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Proposed translations
+1
13 mins
Selected
balancing the budget
..how little thought is given to balancing the budget
I think that's what they're concerned about..
I think that's what they're concerned about..
Peer comment(s):
agree |
philgoddard
8 mins
|
disagree |
Martin Ris
: This seems too narrow and technical. Please see below.
3 days 54 mins
|
It's just a standard phrase, not a technical expression. But if you have a better solution, I am willing to listen..
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agree |
Björn Vrooman
: Late to the party, but it's never too late to defend an answer (see discussion box).
4 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Michael! I actually wasn't that far off!"
30 mins
Pretty naive/irresponsible
The state is very naive, bordering on the irresponsible, by not considering ... or calculating the consequences of its actions
Example sentence:
The state government is naive about the consequences of its unhindered spending
31 mins
in terms of proper cameralistic accounting
"Throughout the 18th and the first half of the 19th century cameralist science was influential in Northern European states, for example Prussia and Sweden, and its academics and practitioners were pioneers in oeconomic, environmental and administrative knowledge and technology, for example cameralistic accounting, still used in public finance today." Wikipedia
Reference:
2 hrs
in true bureaucratic fashion
... but you'd have to rearrange your sentence a little!
Reference comments
22 mins
Reference:
Wikipedia
This has various meanings, but I think this is the relevant one:
Ferner wird unter Kameralistik das Wirtschaften (Handeln) der öffentlichen Hand nach Maßgabe von Haushaltsplänen verstanden und der „planerischen Freiheit“ der privaten Unternehmer gegenübergestellt.
So "from a purely budgetary point of view".
Ferner wird unter Kameralistik das Wirtschaften (Handeln) der öffentlichen Hand nach Maßgabe von Haushaltsplänen verstanden und der „planerischen Freiheit“ der privaten Unternehmer gegenübergestellt.
So "from a purely budgetary point of view".
Reference:
Discussion
As Phil said in his reference entry:
"Wirtschaften (Handeln) der öffentlichen Hand nach Maßgabe von Haushaltsplänen verstanden"
This means that "proper kameralistisch" is "gemäß ordentlicher Haushaltsplanung." And what's one of the principal differences between private-sector enterprises and public organizations? One group aims to make a profit, the other has to balance the budget:
"Der Grundsatz des Haushaltsausgleichs (Artikel 110 Absatz 1 Satz 2 GG)
Der Haushaltsplan des Bundes ist in Einnahme und Ausgabe auszugleichen. Dieses Ausgleichsgebot ist formal zu verstehen; der Haushalt muss für den Gesamtbetrag der in ihn eingestellten Ausgaben auf der Einnahmeseite die erforderliche Deckung ausweisen."
This fits neatly into the context of the federal budget having been balanced (and even turning a profit) in past years. A disagree is unwarranted; it's not even associated with "immense costs" in general, IMO. The issue is that each of those kids costs the state EUR 4,500 per month, which is a lot of money for just one child.
I think you can thank German websites for the awkward phrasing:
https://www.google.de/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=DKiTWLvuAdL08Ae276boAg#q...
Completely agree with your explanation, just not that fond of "refugee minor." Yes, it's used on .gov pages, but a compound noun such as "refugee minor" sounds to me like a "physics major" from Wisconsin-Milwaukee. I'd prefer your other option, "refugee children" - or even "migrant children."
Here's the Guardian (w/o "refugee"):
"Last week it was announced that Britain would accept more unaccompanied minors from Syria and other conflict zones. "
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/30/fears-for-miss...
Same on Fox & NBC:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/11/latest-greece-opens-...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/01/19/germany-needs-help-f...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/07/german-crews-build-b...
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/child-immigrants-strained-system
http://www.msnbc.com/specials/migrant-crisis/mediterranean
Also, do they really call them "minor refugees" in Ireland??? (with that syntax?).
Just curious b/c the gov't programs here avoid placement of terms like "minor" before the noun as a sensitivity issue, since it can be construed as being "of lesser importance". You want to be sure readers will perceive it as a noun, e.g. "unaccompanied refugee minors" (as officially used at the US Dept. of Health & Human Services). Otherwise, extend it to what it pretty much means, e.g. "unaccompanied child refugees" or "unaccompanied refugee children" (which I have seen in The Guardian and other UK publications).
As for "proper Kameralistisch", I suggest doing away with the false cognate and leaning towards incorporating the phrase "sound public finance" (or the lack thereof).
Your other term "Kameralistische Buchfuehrung" is simply "public finance accounting" or "government accounting" AFAIK: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/public-finance-...