Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Ich stelle nicht von mir aus das Ansinnen

English translation:

to demand/request something of someone

Added to glossary by Helen Shiner
Feb 1, 2009 13:04
15 yrs ago
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German term

Ich stelle nicht von mir aus das Ansinnen

German to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
This is from a letter written by a Jewish refugee in an internship camp in the UK in 1941. The meaning is broadly clear, I am interested in the function of 'von mir aus' and how best to render this in conjunction with the noun+verb construction into English.

"Der Juengere war mit in Onchan Camp. Ich stelle nicht von mir aus das Ansinner an Sie mit Fischbein zu sprechen, falls Sie das nicht wollem, auch moechte ich nicht, dass diese geistig armseligen Menschen allzuhart angefasst werden..."
Change log

Feb 2, 2009 23:39: Marcus Malabad changed "Term asked" from "das Ansinnen stellen" to "Ich stelle nicht von mir aus das Ansinnen" , "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO" , "Field" from "Other" to "Art/Literary"

Feb 15, 2009 11:37: Helen Shiner Created KOG entry

Discussion

PoveyTrans (X) (asker) Feb 1, 2009:
Tone Thanks for all your work. I agree that the verb 'insist/demand/request' is of importance here. The author is 72, from a well-to-do German Jewish family, somehow managed to reach England through government connections and is using his waning influence and funds to try and help. His relationship with Brigitte is key, she is probably in her 30's, also a refugee but who poses no apparent threat to the UK authorities so has not been interned (unlike the author). He address her as 'Liebe Bri, liebe treue Seele'...he probably contributed significantly to her escape, at least financially. Reading into the text, the relationship feels very warm and the author asks Bri to do a lot of work on his behalf. This is perhaps a little too much info but I thought you might find it interesting, the text is over 6000 words and is a fascinating piece of personal history.
PoveyTrans (X) (asker) Feb 1, 2009:
My fault, the sentence before is a bit of a red-herring am afraid, he was the younger of two young sons from another Jewish family scattered over the globe and he is informing Brigitte of his last known whereabouts so she can let other family members know. The author had found out the day before writing that his wife had been 'deported' from Berlin so he is in a very disturbed state of mind, clear in that his ideas flit around. Looks like I was infected by this too.
Bernhard Sulzer Feb 1, 2009:
Hello Simon. Can you shed more light on who "der Jüngere" was and in what way he is possibly connected to Fischbein. Thx.
Helen Shiner Feb 1, 2009:
Or rather 'morally wretched people' amongst whom we can presume Fischbein is numbered. The start of the sentence gives the impression that one member of that group has been in the camp with the writer, which may be the reason he doesn't want too much pressure put on him.
Helen Shiner Feb 1, 2009:
Contact on the outside does not mean 'superior'. This person may have been a friend or a member of the Resistance. And the point is that the writer says he is NOT going to 'demand' or, as franglish correctly has it, 'insist' on her speaking to Fischbein. Clearly the writer would like this to happen, but does not want to put pressure on Brigitte if she doesn't want to do it, and anyway, the writer does not want undue "force" to be brought to bear on Fischbein, this "morally wretched person".
franglish Feb 1, 2009:
meaning in context "... I shall not insist you speak to/with Fischbein should you not wish to do so..." You've got it, Simon
PoveyTrans (X) (asker) Feb 1, 2009:
More info Thanks to all for your help. Some more info: The author is writing to his 'person on the outside' [Brigitte] who is transacting his business, mainly trying to rescue relatives from Nazi Europe, by using his contacts and funds. Fischbein took over his property after his internment and is supposed to be generating funds for his vain attempts to rescue his wife and relatives (it is 1941 and speaks of deportations but their fate is not know though suspected by him) by pawning the author's possessions. His relationship with Brigitte is warm but naturally he is disappointed with Fischbein.
Martin Wenzel Feb 1, 2009:
Nicht von mir aus One could almost interpret that he/she was prompted by others to suggest he spoke with Fishbein...demand is a very strong word, can somebody in an internship camp demand something from his/her superior?? The meaning of "Ansinnen" has much of the English "suggestion"....

Jutta Wappel Feb 1, 2009:
von mir aus The more I read this, the more it confuses me. I just want to clarify one thing: "von mir aus" in this case doesn't mean " for all I care" or "do what you want - I don't mind either way" etc.
In my opinion it means something like "the idea to talk to Fischbein isn't mine".
PoveyTrans (X) (asker) Feb 1, 2009:
More info Yes, it is a little tricky. It is in fact the poor author who needs the recipient of the letter to speak to Fischbein on his behalf. I wonder if 'von mir aus' is a way of the author saying "I'm not insisting that you speak with Fischbein' [who has swindled the author out of lots of money], but this is perhaps a little far-fetched.

Proposed translations

+5
13 mins
German term (edited): das Ansinnen stellen
Selected

to demand something of someone

As far as I am concerned, I am not going to demand that you speak to Fischbein, if you don't want to...

This is approximately how I would translate it - as a first stab

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2009-02-01 13:24:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think 'von mir aus' is one of those slightly unnecessary phrases said for emphasis in speech - or as here - in a letter.
Peer comment(s):

agree Edith Kelly
0 min
Thanks, EdithK
agree Ulrike Kraemer : Fully agree with your suggestion except that I wouldn't use "demand" here because it's too strong. "As far as I am concerned, I am not going to ask/request that you speak with Fishleg ..."
2 hrs
Thanks, LittleBalu - the use of 'demand' might be too strong in the context - certainly there are a number of you who feel so, so I take it on board, though am I right in thinking it can mean that (my Langenscheidt has 'demand' as well as 'request'?
agree Inge Meinzer : with LittleBalu regarding "demand"
5 hrs
Thanks, Inge - I am fully persuaded that 'request' is probably the way to go.
agree LP Schumacher : I also agree with your thoughts about "von mir aus." I regularly translate correspondence for an older gentleman whose style of writing uses this expression in a way that seems entirely unnecessary in English. It basically comes down to an emphasized "I"
18 hrs
Thanks, Liesel - as part of my research I also read a great deal of correspondence from this period; it hadn't dawned on me that my understanding of this phrase comes from that, but highly probable.
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
19 hrs
Thanks, Harald
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
11 mins
German term (edited): das Ansinnen stellen

not on my account / not for myself

I'm not asking you to speak with Fischbein for myself / you don't need to talk to him on my account.

This sentence isn't entirely clear to me, hence the low confidence level.
It sounds as if someone else has asked him to request of the person he's speaking to to talk to Fischbein.

"ein Ansinnen stellen" means : to request or to ask



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2009-02-01 13:47:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Taking Simon's clarification into account, I'd say the meaning is something to the effect of "I am not DEMANDING that you speak to Fischbein, but if you did, you'd be doing me a big favour."
Or, psychologically speaking, the author does want the recipient to talk to Fischbein, but he wants him to think it was his own idea (the recipient's).
Peer comment(s):

disagree Edith Kelly : see Helen's answer below ... you unfortunately got the meaning wrong.
3 mins
If I did, I apologize, but I'm not so sure that I actually have got it wrong!
agree Veronika McLaren : in the sense that he is suggesting that it was not his idea to request "mit F. zu sprechen"
11 hrs
Thanks Veronika!
agree LP Schumacher : with your definition of the source term "ein Ansinnen stellen"
18 hrs
Thanks Liesl!
agree Bernhard Sulzer : don't tell Fischbein I asked you to ask (him) if you should decide to ask him - or: don't tell him it was my idea to talk to him about it.
1 day 27 mins
Danke Bernhard!
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
5 days
Something went wrong...
1 hr
German term (edited): das Ansinnen stellen

I wouldn't expect you to speak with Fishbein

if you [really] don't want to do it
Something went wrong...
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