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bague d’air

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

trombe d'eau mère

English translation:

main/mother waterspout

Added to glossary by B D Finch
Feb 18, 2011 22:16
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

trombe d'eau mère assez de vie

French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Novel
Contexte:

"Et leurs visages se transformèrent car ils furent pris de panique devant l'énorme trombe d'eau qui envahit l'endroit, le leur, et qui n'allait point cesser de fatalement tourbilloner tant que l'énorme **trombe mère assez de vie** lui transmettrait."

People on a ship during a hurricane.

Merci Beaucoup,

Barbara
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 main/mother waterspout
4 -1 maelstrom like a mother brimming with life
References
pretty active mother-whirlwind
Change log

Feb 23, 2011 09:23: B D Finch Created KOG entry

Feb 23, 2011 09:24: B D Finch changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/570330">B D Finch's</a> old entry - "trombe d'eau mère assez de vie"" to ""main/mother waterspout""

Discussion

Atelier de Mots Feb 20, 2011:
I agree that is is a "watersprout" in the singular... the issue seems to be to find an a word that conveys the fury of the scientific thing without resorting to scienific writing!
B D Finch Feb 19, 2011:
Photo Here's a photo of a two-branched waterspout
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/graphics/wxdrphotos/wa...

"Finally, a single waterspout funnel may split into two diverging branches to form a forked waterspout."
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/almanac/arc2002/alm02o...
Clive Phillips Feb 19, 2011:
lui and waterspout Can't see that the writer is describing more than one waterspout. And have yet to see two being so close to each other that one feeds the other.
Yes, BD, I was incorrect. Water is not sucked up into the column. However, at "the spray-ring stage, ... the dark spot (on the water surface) is surrounded by a sheath of water droplets ripped from the water surface by the swirling winds": http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/637532/waterspout
This can be seen in two of the photos (not the video) here:
http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/08/lakeshore_residents_ca...
B D Finch Feb 19, 2011:
waterspout & lui As per the refs and explanation I gave with my answer, I think that "lui" is the smaller of two (or more) waterspouts. According to the Wikipedia ref, waterspouts don't really suck up water, they just look as though they do. There is nothing particularly scientific about the term "waterspout".
Clive Phillips Feb 19, 2011:
whirlpool v waterspout v hurricane Sylvain has really clarified some things - merci!
I still feel that the trombe d'eau is not merely a hurricane wind or a cloudburst, but a waterspout. The use of énorme...envahit...tourbillonner suggests something visible (which a waterspout is) and sudden circular motion. A hurricane wind at sea is surely experienced as linear from one direction, not swirling, and one which gradually builds in strength. I feel, Patti, that waterspout is too scientific here but maelstrom doesn't quite do it either, as it denotes a whirlpool (originally a large one on the W coast of Norway) which would pull the vessel downwards (whereas a waterspout sucks all on the surface upwards). Maybe something like "(as long as the huge) waterspout continued to feed it" but I don't see what "it" (lui) refers to.
Atelier de Mots Feb 19, 2011:
I would disagree with the suggestion of a comforting, nurturing mother. This is the POWERFUL mother. Maybe "... to provide the force of a determined mother to keep it alive..."
Sylvain Lourme Feb 19, 2011:
Basically, the meaning is something like this
" as long as the powerful maelstrom would continue to provide enough fuel to keep it alive" (yes, I know it's not very good :-) ).

Now you natives should come up with a way to render "mother" and "give life" . Maybe the idea of feeding, like a mother suckling her child.
Sylvain Lourme Feb 19, 2011:
I like the word maelstrom which will indeed be more literary than cyclone, which has more meteorological undertones.
Atelier de Mots Feb 19, 2011:
Based on Sylvain's enlightening reading, we might say "the mother of all maelstroms" in American English. The climatological event itself could be described as an "underwater cyclone," an "underwater tornado," an "underwater whirlpool," etc etc. I'm aiming for a literary touch with "maelstrom."
Sylvain Lourme Feb 19, 2011:
I suggest you change your question to "trombe mère", but leave out the "assez de vie" which is another element in the sentence.
Sylvain Lourme Feb 19, 2011:
Quant à "trombe mère" ça fait référence au cyclone, "Trombe" dans son sens premier s'applique à un vent très fort. Et "trombe d'eau" est un sens dérivé. Dans l'image de l'auteur, le cyclone (la trombe) est la mère des masses d'eau déchaînées (trombe d'eau). Et tant que le vent soufflera (tant que la trombe donnera assez de vie à l'eau), la trombe d'eau va envahir leur navire et l'agiter. Voilà!
Sylvain Lourme Feb 19, 2011:
Assez de vie, si c'est ça qui te pose problème, va avec "lui transmettrait". Dans un ordre plus classique :"tant que l'énorme trombe mère lui transmettrait assez de vie" Simple inversion plus littéraire dans l'original.
Clive Phillips Feb 19, 2011:
a waterspout... ...is a whirlwind or tornado at sea. Maybe a typo/scanno for "trombe de mer assez vive" ???
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Feb 18, 2011:
Mother-Whirlwind Do you mean, spelenschach1, "mother of a whirlwind?"
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Feb 18, 2011:
Yes, Quite a Possibility... ...of that, based on what I have encountered in other parts of the text.
Tony M Feb 18, 2011:
Reliable source text? Is there any possiblity / likelihood of missing words, a typo or a scanno, for example?

Proposed translations

+1
12 hrs
Selected

main/mother waterspout

Water spouts may occur as "families". I believe that it is probably incorrect to assume that the largest one acts as "mother" to the others; however, that may be the impression being described here.

"A family of four waterspouts seen on the Great Lakes (Lake Huron) on September 9, 1999. Four waterspouts seen in the Florida Keys on June 5, 2009. ..."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterspout

"Then, all of the sudden, they're enveloped in darkness again and they're heading toward a family of waterspouts. No "edge of storm" in sight. ..."
www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2464358856&topic=805

"... family of waterspouts over Chesapeake Bay. A pair of waterspouts over Chesapeake Bay on 28 April 2002. While the 2002 tornado season was ..."
ccams.eas.cornell.edu/ithacation/ith_feb03.pdf



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2011-02-19 11:09:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As previously mentioned, you need to correct your parsing:
"assez de vie lui transmettrait" is just an inversion of "lui transmettrait assez de vie".
Peer comment(s):
agree Sandra & Kenneth Grossman : as long as the "mother" waterspout was nourishing it
1 hr
Thanks Sangro. The "mother" (or largest waterspout) "nourishing" the smaller one would only have been an observer's impression, not the reality.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks a lot. I found another translator, besides the ones here, who agrees with your translation."
-1
11 hrs

maelstrom like a mother brimming with life

I suggest making the necessary link between "trombe" and "mother" with a simile. -- Le Tresor has a great deal to say about "trombe d'eau" and the use of "trombe" to indicate size and force. See link below.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2011-02-19 09:33:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, The link I cut and pasted does not seem to work. Try http://atilf.atilf.fr/ and search for "trombe."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2011-02-19 09:52:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've responded to Sylvain in the discussion section, and proposed "mother of all maelstroms" as a result of his helpful reading of this passage. Merci!
Reference:

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=2072286060;

Peer comment(s):
disagree Sylvain Lourme : Voir dans la partie discussion mon explication de la phrase et de la position de "assez de vie".
11 mins
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

10 mins
Reference:

pretty active mother-whirlwind

Peer comments on this reference comment:
disagree Sylvain Lourme : Voir dans la partie discussion mon explication de la phrase et de la position de "assez de vie".
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
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