Jun 11, 2009 20:48
15 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term
sémiologie de pointe
French to English
Medical
Medical (general)
General
"Je n'ai pas entendu de sémiologie de pointe."
This expression appears in correspondence between a cardiologist and a general practitioner and appears to relate to cardiac auscultation. I was wondering if the practitioner is simply saying that there was nothing audible (of an abnormal nature) that particularly caught his attention during his examination of the patient with the stethoscope.
This expression appears in correspondence between a cardiologist and a general practitioner and appears to relate to cardiac auscultation. I was wondering if the practitioner is simply saying that there was nothing audible (of an abnormal nature) that particularly caught his attention during his examination of the patient with the stethoscope.
Proposed translations
(English)
References
semiologie = symptomatology |
Melissa McMahon
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Proposed translations
+6
7 hrs
Selected
abnormal sounds at the apex
This source text begs to be translated loosely. Although the word "semiology" exists in English, I have never before seen it used professionally in medicine. I doubt that most cardiologists would even know what it means, and those that did, would know immediately that they were reading a translation.
From "entendu" we know that the cardiologist is referring to an examination with a stethoscope. No other diagnostic procedure or test produces an audible result which is intended to be interpreted.
In this context "semiology" can only mean sounds which could facilitate a diagnosis. Of course, he would have heard the usual S1 and S2 heart sounds, but to make a case for some cardiovascular disease diagnosable with a stethoscope, he would have had to have heard something abnormal about S1 or S2, or the presence of an S3, an S4, a "click", a "murmur" or a "rub". Moreover, additional diagnostic information such as a palpable cardiac impulse, a "thrill" or abnormal jugular waves are excluded by the "entendu". He is discussing only what he heard with the stethoscope.
In essence, he is saying that he heard no abnormal sounds at the apex (of the heart). That is how a native English cardiologist would express this finding. It is a cultural thing. The French abhor such simple language in professional text. To translate the source text more literally into English is to invite the derision of the knowledgeable reader.
From "entendu" we know that the cardiologist is referring to an examination with a stethoscope. No other diagnostic procedure or test produces an audible result which is intended to be interpreted.
In this context "semiology" can only mean sounds which could facilitate a diagnosis. Of course, he would have heard the usual S1 and S2 heart sounds, but to make a case for some cardiovascular disease diagnosable with a stethoscope, he would have had to have heard something abnormal about S1 or S2, or the presence of an S3, an S4, a "click", a "murmur" or a "rub". Moreover, additional diagnostic information such as a palpable cardiac impulse, a "thrill" or abnormal jugular waves are excluded by the "entendu". He is discussing only what he heard with the stethoscope.
In essence, he is saying that he heard no abnormal sounds at the apex (of the heart). That is how a native English cardiologist would express this finding. It is a cultural thing. The French abhor such simple language in professional text. To translate the source text more literally into English is to invite the derision of the knowledgeable reader.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
:::::::::: (X)
23 mins
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Thank you kindly!
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agree |
SJLD
: nice explanation ;-)/Thanks :-))) Was on hols in Spain - brilliant, you must go there!!!
1 hr
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It's a joy to see you back. Now you will beat me to all the juicy ones. :-)//My son just flew back from Spain. I hope he took pics.
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agree |
Lionel_M (X)
4 hrs
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Thanks Lionel!
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agree |
Shog Imas
15 hrs
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Thanks sholmas!
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agree |
Michael Lotz
: well articulated discussion, exactly correct.
15 hrs
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Thanks and regards Michael :-)
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agree |
Panagiotis Andrias (X)
1 day 5 hrs
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Thank you Panagiotis!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for this very useful suggestion, which I have adopted.
My thanks to everyone who gave their time to express opinions relating to this query. "
23 mins
sophisticated symptom/semiology
Based on your information, I would say the cardiologist is talking sth. related to very sophisticated symptoms (related to semiology) according to a specialist's rich experience...
Hope it's helpful
Hope it's helpful
1 hr
(I haven't heard any) semiological signs at the apex
The cardiologist says that that during heart examination with the stethoscope, he did not find any "semiological signs": so "abnormal sound
16 hrs
signs (or (particular) note) at peak HR
Reading between the lines.
Le RFC [rétablissement de la fréquence cardiaque] était défini par la différence entre la FC [FREQUENCE CARDIAQUE , therefore] DE POINTE à l’EFFORT et la FC mesurée à intervalles spécifiques [ ... ] et la FC DE POINTE était de 119 ± 22 battements/min.
HRR was defined as the difference from PEAK EXERCISE HR to HR measured at specific time intervals ... and PEAK HR was 119±22 beats/min
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=26...
Yes, I know you SEE or READ signs rather than HEAR them ...
Give Derbyshire a smile for me.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-06-12 13:42:15 GMT)
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Make that "signs (oF (particular) note) at peak HR"
Le RFC [rétablissement de la fréquence cardiaque] était défini par la différence entre la FC [FREQUENCE CARDIAQUE , therefore] DE POINTE à l’EFFORT et la FC mesurée à intervalles spécifiques [ ... ] et la FC DE POINTE était de 119 ± 22 battements/min.
HRR was defined as the difference from PEAK EXERCISE HR to HR measured at specific time intervals ... and PEAK HR was 119±22 beats/min
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=26...
Yes, I know you SEE or READ signs rather than HEAR them ...
Give Derbyshire a smile for me.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2009-06-12 13:42:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Make that "signs (oF (particular) note) at peak HR"
Reference comments
4 hrs
Reference:
semiologie = symptomatology
In medicine, "semiologie" is what we would call "symptomatology" in English - I recently translated a medical degree with "semiologie" as a course subject.
Here, you'd probably say "symptomatic signs" - "I didn't hear any symptomatic signs/signals...". I can't speak to what the "pointe" is, but I'm pretty sure it would be inappropriate to refer to "semiology" in English in this context.
Cf. GDT: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800...
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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-06-12 00:57:15 GMT)
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GDT:
sémiologie n. f.
Équivalent(s)
English symptomatology
Définition :
Partie de la médecine qui étudie les symptômes et les signes des maladies.
Here, you'd probably say "symptomatic signs" - "I didn't hear any symptomatic signs/signals...". I can't speak to what the "pointe" is, but I'm pretty sure it would be inappropriate to refer to "semiology" in English in this context.
Cf. GDT: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-06-12 00:57:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
GDT:
sémiologie n. f.
Équivalent(s)
English symptomatology
Définition :
Partie de la médecine qui étudie les symptômes et les signes des maladies.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Adsion Liu
: Yes, but also semiology in English: Vicon French-English Dictionary : sémiologie (f) --> semiology, study of signs and symbols (also semeiology)
37 mins
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Absolutely, but "semiology" is a different discipline to "symptomatology".
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neutral |
Michael Barnett
: In medicine symptoms and signs are quite distinct. There is no such thing as a symptomatic sign. Perhaps you mean "diagnostic sign" which is closer to the meaning of the source text.
3 hrs
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Yes, you're right, wording should be different: I just wanted to indicate the existence of the discipline, which covers both symptoms and signs.
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Discussion