Jun 11, 2009 20:48
15 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term

sémiologie de pointe

French to English Medical Medical (general) General
"Je n'ai pas entendu de sémiologie de pointe."
This expression appears in correspondence between a cardiologist and a general practitioner and appears to relate to cardiac auscultation. I was wondering if the practitioner is simply saying that there was nothing audible (of an abnormal nature) that particularly caught his attention during his examination of the patient with the stethoscope.

Discussion

Omar Lima Quintana Jun 11, 2009:
de LA sémiologie du pointe du coeur? The same as your GP: I do not understand

Proposed translations

+6
7 hrs
Selected

abnormal sounds at the apex

This source text begs to be translated loosely. Although the word "semiology" exists in English, I have never before seen it used professionally in medicine. I doubt that most cardiologists would even know what it means, and those that did, would know immediately that they were reading a translation.

From "entendu" we know that the cardiologist is referring to an examination with a stethoscope. No other diagnostic procedure or test produces an audible result which is intended to be interpreted.

In this context "semiology" can only mean sounds which could facilitate a diagnosis. Of course, he would have heard the usual S1 and S2 heart sounds, but to make a case for some cardiovascular disease diagnosable with a stethoscope, he would have had to have heard something abnormal about S1 or S2, or the presence of an S3, an S4, a "click", a "murmur" or a "rub". Moreover, additional diagnostic information such as a palpable cardiac impulse, a "thrill" or abnormal jugular waves are excluded by the "entendu". He is discussing only what he heard with the stethoscope.

In essence, he is saying that he heard no abnormal sounds at the apex (of the heart). That is how a native English cardiologist would express this finding. It is a cultural thing. The French abhor such simple language in professional text. To translate the source text more literally into English is to invite the derision of the knowledgeable reader.
Peer comment(s):

agree :::::::::: (X)
23 mins
Thank you kindly!
agree SJLD : nice explanation ;-)/Thanks :-))) Was on hols in Spain - brilliant, you must go there!!!
1 hr
It's a joy to see you back. Now you will beat me to all the juicy ones. :-)//My son just flew back from Spain. I hope he took pics.
agree Lionel_M (X)
4 hrs
Thanks Lionel!
agree Shog Imas
15 hrs
Thanks sholmas!
agree Michael Lotz : well articulated discussion, exactly correct.
15 hrs
Thanks and regards Michael :-)
agree Panagiotis Andrias (X)
1 day 5 hrs
Thank you Panagiotis!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for this very useful suggestion, which I have adopted. My thanks to everyone who gave their time to express opinions relating to this query. "
23 mins

sophisticated symptom/semiology

Based on your information, I would say the cardiologist is talking sth. related to very sophisticated symptoms (related to semiology) according to a specialist's rich experience...

Hope it's helpful
Something went wrong...
1 hr

(I haven't heard any) semiological signs at the apex

The cardiologist says that that during heart examination with the stethoscope, he did not find any "semiological signs": so "abnormal sound
Something went wrong...
16 hrs

signs (or (particular) note) at peak HR

Reading between the lines.

Le RFC [rétablissement de la fréquence cardiaque] était défini par la différence entre la FC [FREQUENCE CARDIAQUE , therefore] DE POINTE à l’EFFORT et la FC mesurée à intervalles spécifiques [ ... ] et la FC DE POINTE était de 119 ± 22 battements/min.

HRR was defined as the difference from PEAK EXERCISE HR to HR measured at specific time intervals ... and PEAK HR was 119±22 beats/min
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=26...

Yes, I know you SEE or READ signs rather than HEAR them ...

Give Derbyshire a smile for me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2009-06-12 13:42:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Make that "signs (oF (particular) note) at peak HR"
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

4 hrs
Reference:

semiologie = symptomatology

In medicine, "semiologie" is what we would call "symptomatology" in English - I recently translated a medical degree with "semiologie" as a course subject.

Here, you'd probably say "symptomatic signs" - "I didn't hear any symptomatic signs/signals...". I can't speak to what the "pointe" is, but I'm pretty sure it would be inappropriate to refer to "semiology" in English in this context.

Cf. GDT: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-06-12 00:57:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

GDT:

sémiologie n. f.

Équivalent(s)
English symptomatology

Définition :
Partie de la médecine qui étudie les symptômes et les signes des maladies.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Adsion Liu : Yes, but also semiology in English: Vicon French-English Dictionary : sémiologie (f) --> semiology, study of signs and symbols (also semeiology)
37 mins
Absolutely, but "semiology" is a different discipline to "symptomatology".
neutral Michael Barnett : In medicine symptoms and signs are quite distinct. There is no such thing as a symptomatic sign. Perhaps you mean "diagnostic sign" which is closer to the meaning of the source text.
3 hrs
Yes, you're right, wording should be different: I just wanted to indicate the existence of the discipline, which covers both symptoms and signs.
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search