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collatérale de la veine jugulaire interne gauche
Apr 12, 2017 16:14
7 yrs ago
French term

il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l'habitude de porter ailleurs

French to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters In A Book About Collective Intelligence
Contexte:

5 - Transformer ses vulnérabilités en forces

Le mastermindien « idéal » :
Accepte sa vulnérabilité lorsqu’il est dans ce groupe Mastermind. Il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l’habitude de porter ailleurs, dans des lieux de pouvoirs. Il sait qu’elle ne lui sert à rien avec ses pairs. Au contraire, elle le ralentit et l’empêche d’avancer. Il comprend qu’il peut apprendre à montrer sa vulnérabilité, qu’elle ne sera jamais utilisée contre lui.

I think it must have something to do with wearing a façade.

Merci,

Barbara
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 He removes /emerges from the tough outer shell he normally wears/hides behind elsewher
4 +3 He lays down the armour he is used to wearing elsewhere
4 +1 he lays down the arms is used to bearing elsewhere
4 +1 he takes off the mask that he is probably used to wearing elsewhere
3 +1 he sheds the shell that he might habitually wear elsewhere
4 He sheds the protective shell that he might usually wear elsewhere
3 he sheds the skin that he probably normally dons elsewhere
References
He gets free from the armor that perhaps he uses to wear elsewhere
Définition
Change log

Apr 12, 2017 23:09: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\\\'habitude de porter ailleurs" to "il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs "

Discussion

Tony M Apr 16, 2017:
Just one other point... Although it is acceptable and grammatically normal to do so in FR, I think in En these days its sits ill to ASSUME this 'mastermind' is a 'he' — I'd like to suggest that in a context like this, it might be preferable to use 'they' as a gender-neutral pronoun.
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Apr 13, 2017:
Thank You, Verginia... ...for your input, even though I ending up feeling quite confident, anyway, that I made the right interpretation, all things considered.

I appreciate it.
Verginia Ophof Apr 13, 2017:
agree with Asker...... façade or false front.
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Apr 12, 2017:
Using My Own Rendition Thanks, everyone, for your input, but I decided, given the overall tone of my translated text, that the rendition I came up myself with will serve me just fine.

But I will be choosing the best offering here, anyway, after at least 24 hours have elapsed.
Tony M Apr 12, 2017:
@ Ana Yes, as I addressed in my earlier comment. But the fact remains that 'armour' is a very commonly used image in this sort of field, and conveys a quite different notion from certain other possibilities also sugegsted.
"Lowering one's guard" is, however, yet another totally different image, which I really do feel would be quite "inappropriate" here.
Ana Vozone Apr 12, 2017:
@Tony M Barbara said earlier: References to armor, etc., are inappropriate for the surrounding context in the original and of my translated text.
So I suggested "skin". Maybe something like "Dropped his guard" could work as well, although it is not exactly the same...
Tony M Apr 12, 2017:
'shell' as sugested by BCSantos below is the only thing that readily comes to mind that is similar to this notion of 'armour' in the source text — though we should note in passing that FR has the term 'carapace' for that sort of thing, so if the writer used 'armour' instead, it may well have been a very deleiberate choice.
Note that a 'shell' may be something that builds up of its own accord; think sclerosing, think an accretion of limescale; whereas 'armour' is something that has been carefully, even lovingly, and certainly deliberately, forged to protect its owner — in this sense, the images are actually quite different.
Tony M Apr 12, 2017:
@ Asker Given how very common images of 'armour' are in such contexts, and how the source text itself uses this very effective image, I find it really hard to see how this could in any way be "inappropriate for the surrounding context" — if that were the case, perhaps it would be helpful if you were to give us some of that surrounding context that shows just WHY this might be the case? If you want us to help you, yet have already rejected the very common, standard solution, then you really do need to give us the context that explains why?
If it is "inappropriate for the surrounding context" of your "translated text", then maybe you need to consider what it is about your translated text that makes this unsuitable? Perhaps in that case you might need to review the way you have handled it up to this point?
Mair A-W (PhD) Apr 12, 2017:
takes off the face / that he keeps in a jar by the door / who is it for
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/beatles/eleanor rigby_10026674....
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Apr 12, 2017:
Inappropriate For The Overall Text References to armor, etc., are inappropriate for the surrounding context in the original and of my translated text.

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs
Selected

He removes /emerges from the tough outer shell he normally wears/hides behind elsewher

Perhaps this fits in. Building a tough outer shell to hide you true emotions.

Is It True That People Who Hide Their Feelings Usually Care The Most ...
www.experienceproject.com/question-answer/Is...Hide...Feeli...
23 Nov 2013 - I hide my feelings because I don't like looking weak. ... It usually is fear of being hurt, rather than neediness, that causes that tough outer shell.
Three Voices of Art Therapy (Psychology Revivals): Image, Client, ...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=113503768X
Tessa Dalley, ‎Gabrielle Rifkind, ‎Kim Terry - 2013 - ‎Medical
By looking in his immediate area of experience, he could begin to think about his ... he had built up his outer shell which formed the basis of his social interaction to the point where he could function only with this mask or false persona. ... less threatening means of communicating his feelings and difficulties and thereby ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Yes, 'shell' is another term commonly used in this field.
25 mins
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
50 mins
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\\\'habitude de porter ailleurs

He lays down the armour he is used to wearing elsewhere

As it is not an existing expression in French and while it is symbolic, I think you should stick to the image, as the English reader will have to do as much thinking with "armour" as the French reader.
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : For the reasons you describe, this may be a very good solution. Or even "casts aside", "sets aside".
7 mins
agree Tony M : Yes, it is very common in this sort of field to talk about 'armour', I can't conceive how this could NOT be appropriate!! Possibly 'can set aside'...? We often use 'can' in EN where 'pouvoir' would not be used in FR, but it seems to fit here.
3 hrs
agree Daryo
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
12 mins
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs

he lays down the arms is used to bearing elsewhere

Armour is to protect, but is also symbolic of war. I'd go with something idiomatic, hence this suggestion, with arms rather than armour. The idea is that he does not need to be armed to the teeth; he needs to show that he is not waging war, but coming in peace.

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Note added at 12 mins (2017-04-12 16:27:42 GMT)
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http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/lay down arms

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Note added at 13 mins (2017-04-12 16:27:59 GMT)
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lay down arms
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia.
lay down one's arms
Fig. to put one's gun, sword, club, etc., down; to stop fighting; to surrender. The prisoners were instructed to lay down their arms. The soldiers laid down their arms and surrendered.
See also: arm, down, lay
McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

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Note added at 55 mins (2017-04-12 17:09:54 GMT)
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"the arms he is used to..."


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Note added at 56 mins (2017-04-12 17:11:42 GMT)
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If it is rather a matter of the protective feature, a defence, then this may not be the best solution.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michele Fauble
29 mins
neutral Tony M : But 'arms' suggests offensive, whereas 'armour' suggests defensive, protective — surely a vital difference in emphasis here?
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
52 mins
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs

he takes off the mask that he is probably used to wearing elsewhere

I think "masks" describes best the facades that people wear (e.g. the toughie, the intellectual, the joker, the perfectionist, etc. etc. - there are 8 or 9 of these in most psychological models).

5 Masks We Wear and Why We Should Take Them Off | The ...


www.huffingtonpost.com/tina.../5-masks-we-wear-and-why-w_b_...
13 Jul 2015 - But when you wear a mask you stand in resistance to your true life and end ... I'm amazed at how many people pretend to be strong even when ...
The Masks That We Wear | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/laugh-your-way-well.../...
20 Oct 2015 - Thousands of years later, people are still wearing masks. They hide behind anything from a false smile to Dr. Dre headphones to my personal ...

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-12 17:37:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


The Masks We Wear - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/04/the-masks-we-wear/...
5 Apr 2016 - We wear masks for many reasons: for fun, for protection, or to make a statement. In turbulent public settings, obscuring one's face can protect an ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-12 17:38:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


The masks we wear--how we hide who we are. — Sarah K Peck
https://www.sarahkpeck.com/2013/11/the-masks-we-wear-to-hide...
We all wear masks from time to time: in our words, our habits, and our practices. We have an arsenal of crutches and shortcuts that slowly but surely hide who we ..
Peer comment(s):
agree katsy : yes, masks...
1 hr
thank you
neutral Tony M : I think 'masks' is quite a different image: 'masks' are to hide something behind, whereas 'armour' is to protect oneself from external attack.
3 hrs
People both hide behind and shield themselves with a mask (i.e. a particular personality pattern) to protect from external attack (defence mechanisms) as well as to try to win recognition
Something went wrong...
2 hrs
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs

he sheds the skin that he probably normally dons elsewhere

A slightly different suggestion, bearing in mind what Barbara said in the discussion.
Example sentence:

As Minter enters his first season as the clear-cut starter in the middle of a loaded Tigers' defense, he's not about to shed the skin he's worn ever since he stepped on the football field. Just steady and ...

And that's exactly why he won't shed the skin he has now when he does return to action, according to cagesideseats.com.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : But 'shedding skin' suggests something different from 'déposer', more about transforming into something else (cf. chrysalis > butterfly) — this 'skin' is not something that you would be able to put back on again on a different occasion.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs
French term (edited): il dépose l’armure qu’il a peut-être l\'habitude de porter ailleurs

he sheds the shell that he might habitually wear elsewhere

www.cactusmusic.be/EN/Concerts/Archive/2017/zimmerman
25 Mar 2017 - A bass player is by reputation 'the quiet guy' in the band. Until that special moment when he sheds his shell, for "still waters run deep", to use ...

www.mtishows.com/full-synopsis/1297
If they wait until he sheds his shell, he will be vulnerable, and the Eldest Magician can use magic to make him small again

doublekk.weebly.com/yaoi-fanfiction
He might be shy and quiet most of the time, but give him some alcohol and he sheds his shell, and he goes around talkin' to everyone, ramblin' on and on about ...
Peer comment(s):
agree José Patrício : Si l'on explicit la métaphore
11 hrs
Thanks. I think the metaphor is sufficiently common not to require additional explanation.
Something went wrong...
3 days 9 hrs

He sheds the protective shell that he might usually wear elsewhere

The issue seems to be "armure" - yes stronger than "protective shell" but I think that is what we would most commonly say in US (unless something period or more literary is called for)
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Reference comments

19 mins
Reference:

He gets free from the armor that perhaps he uses to wear elsewhere

f.ex.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
Reference:

Définition

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree writeaway
3 mins
agree Tony M
3 days 12 hrs
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