English term
much as I light of chaps
Thank you in advance for interpreting it for me.
Caesar had now selected a piece of calico, in which the gaudy colors of yellow and red were contrasted on a white ground, and, after admiring it for several minutes, he laid it down with a sigh, as he exclaimed, “Berry pretty calico.”
“That,” said Sarah; “yes, that would make a proper gown for your wife, Caesar.”
“Yes, Miss Sally,” cried the delighted black, “it make old Dinah heart leap for joy—so berry genteel.”
“Yes,” added the peddler, quaintly, “that is only wanting to make Dinah look like a rainbow.”
Caesar eyed his young mistress eagerly, until she inquired of Harvey the price of the article.
“Why, much as I light of chaps,” said the peddler.
“How much?” demanded Sarah in surprise.
“According to my luck in finding purchasers; for my friend Dinah, you may have it at four shillings.”
| Another example |
philgoddard
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Mar 10, 2024 13:05: philgoddard changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (3): Toni Castano, Robert Farren, philgoddard
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Responses
United Kingdom
Patents and related material specialist
Native in: English (Variants: UK, British, Scottish) 
Works in: German to English, French to English, Swedish to English, and 4 more.
the price depends on how much luck I have finding customers
According to my luck in finding purchasers.
to light of - to come by chance, fall or happen (upon something)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JywNaBrw2o4C&pg=PA3447&d...
If before their goods are all sold, they can light of Chapmen to buy their Ships, they will gladly sell them also, at least some of them, if any Merchant will buy;
https://ota.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/repository/xmlui/bitstream/han...
chap - chapman, buyer, purchaser, customer
chap (n.)
1570s, "customer," short for obsolete chapman in its secondary sense "purchaser, trader" (also see cheap).
https://www.etymonline.com/word/chap
Additional references/examples
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CiVDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA313&dq...
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-liberator/2281193/
the same day James Crabtree of Halifax and Haily the Inspector of Bradford came with a large Purse of Gold to my House and told me they would sell It for two and twenty Shillings for a Guinea. I told them I did not meddle with such Things Crabtree said he sold all he had and would do ; ! told him he might light of Chaps in a many Places by all Reports so we parted ;
https://archive.org/stream/yorkshirecoiner00lawsgoog/yorkshi...
It is now less than thirty years since dairymen stumbled into the practice of co-peration in the business of making-cheese. Previous to that time cheese-making in this country was, to say the least, a crude affair. Every farmer ran his own factory, according to his own peculiar notion, and disposed of his products as he could "light on" chaps.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29665/29665-h/29665-h.htm
| agree |
Daryo
: Impressive research!
9 hrs
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Thanks, Daryo
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Toni Castano
: Your research is truly admirable, but why then only a middle confidence level in view of the conclusive evidence you have posted to sustain your answer?
14 hrs
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Thanks, Toni. 3 is my default level here if I post an answer based on research alone. If I had been able to find a good reference for the whole phrase light of chaps, explaining how it became a set expression or saying I would have put 4.
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| agree |
Björn Vrooman
: Cf. "Against the Profit Motive" (2013) by N. R. Parillo (p. 132): "...'as they could light on chaps' [i.e., as they could attract customers]" and "Englisch-deutsches Supplement-Lexikon" by A. Hoppe (p. 64) for some more intriguing insights.
17 hrs
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Thanks, Björn. I too found the Hoppe reference interesting, but decided against posting it here in the EN monolingual section.
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Yvonne Gallagher
: well done on the research and Thanks!
9 days
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Thanks, Yvonne
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Italy
UK Native Legal & Medical Translator
Native in: English (Variants: Canadian, British, UK, US)
Works in: English, Spanish to English, English to Spanish, and 10 more.
much as I light of chaps
Stefani donned a black and white look that featured light pink satin open chaps — and her platinum blonde hair was seen in a high ponytail.
| disagree |
JaneD
: It's an 1821 American novel, the language used is clearly nothing to do with the UK - but it is slang. For me, "rainbow" is used in a normal way here, but I can't make sense of "I light of chaps". Could be the garment, could be something else.
18 mins
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Ireland
Translator, proofreader & lexicographer.
Native in: English (Variants: UK, British, Irish)
Works in: French to English, Portuguese to English, English, and 8 more.
as much as I hope to get
The OED also links to a dictionary website called "Middle English compendium", where the sense of the ME verb līten is given more broadly as "(a) To rely; trust in (sth.); to, expect or hope to (get sth.); (b) to delay, tarry, wait". The sense "to hope to get (a price" would fit well enough in the present sentence.
According to wiktionary, ME līten is a loan from Old Norse hlíta (with modern descendants in Icelandic, Swedish and Danish), and like many Old Norse borrowings it could have survived for centuries as a dialectal term in the North of England, long enough to make its way into Fenimore Cooper's 19th-century American English.
As for "chaps", it's anybody's guess if this refers to "leather riding apparel" or "fellows, guys".
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Note added at 1 hr (2024-03-10 10:53:41 GMT)
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PS: Having now re-read the passage from the novel, I would say that "as much as I hope to get for..." makes perfect sense given the dialogue that takes place in the last three sentences.
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Note added at 1 hr (2024-03-10 10:54:28 GMT)
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And my money is on "chaps" meaning "riding apparel".
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/lite_v1?tab=meaning_and_use#38959312
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED25793
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I'm not clear what you mean by 'as much as I hope to get', or the connection with riding apparel.
2 hrs
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the same as the number of times I show/exhibit chaps
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
the price depends on the circumstances
A child could have purchased half their stock on as favorable terms as the shrewdest man in the place. Mr. Jessup, on the contrary, varied as he could light of chaps, that is, according to circumstances.
http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/16272/64.html#gsc.tab=0
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Note added at 6 hrs (2024-03-10 15:36:18 GMT)
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Could it be something to do with this?
'The use of “chap” [to mean 'man'] is a shortening of “chapman,” an old term for a trader or dealer. The word was céapmann in Old English, where céapian meant to buy and sell, and céap meant bargaining. Yes, those Anglo-Saxon words are ancestors of our adjective “cheap,” which as you know may describe something that’s a bargain.'
http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/05/chap.html
| Thank you, Philgoddard; I think you suggestion is pretty much close to the truth. |
| agree |
Robert Farren
: Yup, I think this is it. "Light as chaps" = "according to circumstances".
9 mins
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Thanks. It's very obscure, and could be a term invented or misunderstood by the author.
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Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
6 hrs
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Reference comments
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Another example
"Have you heard what the tenants of Ravensnest aim at, in particular?"
"They want to get Hugh's lands, that's all; nothing more, I can assure you."
"On what conditions, pray?" demanded I.
"As you ***'light of chaps***,' to use a saying of their own. Some even profess a willingness to pay a fair price."
"But I do not wish to sell for even a fair price. I have no desire to part with property that is endeared to me by family feeling and association. I have an expensive house and establishment on my estate, which obtains its principal value from the circumstance that it is so placed that I can look after my interests with the least inconvenience to myself. What can I do with the money but buy another estate? and I prefer this that I have."
http://textbase.scriptorium.ro/cooper/the_redskins_2/chapter...
| agree |
Robert Farren
: This seems to show that we're actually dealing with an expression "light of chaps".
There's another example of it online from the Continental Monthly, July 1862, see below.
11 mins
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| agree |
Alison MacG
1 day 4 hrs
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Discussion
In the given question this may not be so clear but then again, Harvey is playing nice but "oh, I'm short of cash" and after having been hit with a straight "How much?" he tries to get as much as he can, pretending that he is doing a favor while being poor. He is a peddler, after all.
I could be all wrong:-), a lot of guessing, I know.
would be
"Well, (my price would be) whatever I can get"
IOW My price for this article is flexible, depends on what the client can pay.
That seems to me the most probable intended meaning.
This a reply from the peddler - so part of the trade jargon from that time.
What is the connection with horse riding chaps or chaps (people) was obvious to traders two centuries ago - today we can only guess what makes most sense from the context.
Saying to a buyer "I sell to dirt-poors / empty purses" - even if true - strikes me as a very unlikely sales spiel.
Using пустой кошелек sounds то me a bit too strong when trying to say "I can give you a good deal", but then the translator had all the text as "context" to decide.
"the most favorable for their empty purses." Thinking of "light on cash" expression, which may not be used as often today in favor of "low on cash", at least in US English, I'm still inclined to agree with this interpretation. It fits the context too.
It becomes obvious that the character Caesar, a black man, a slave, did not receive any formal education. The story takes place, I found out, during the rebellion and political revolution of the Thirteen Colonies, i.e. prior to the abolition of slavery (sanctioned in 1865 by means of the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment to the national Constitution).
As for the question itself, I might be wrong, but we should consider another possible error here, in this case committed by Harvey Birch, the peddler in the dialogue (and the main character in the novel, a spy). My reading is that he wanted to say something like “much as I like of chaps”, with the meaning “well, it depends on the customer(s)”.