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beau nasty

Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

tulip

English answer:

a showy person or thing

Added to glossary by Cagdas Karatas
Jul 26, 2008 16:25
16 yrs ago
English term

tulip

English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
...she settled down to enjoy the music, wedged between an overdressed ***tulip*** who was what was termed a beau nasty, judging by the odour of his unwashed body, and an equally ostentatious woman.

London, 19th c., at a public concert in the Vauxhall Gardens.

I get the general idea, but what is the exact meaning of "tulip" here? A young and gaudy man? Is it archaic usage?
Responses
5 +5 a showy person or thing
4 +2 male homosexual (obsolete)
4 +2 someone whose looks or behavior mark them as unusual
4 +2 pansy; poof; fagot
4 +2 fop; dandy; beau
4 +1 pretentious, chucklehead, fool
4 turban
4 overdressed tulip
Change log

Aug 2, 2008 22:16: Cagdas Karatas Created KOG entry

Discussion

warren Jul 27, 2008:
WOW, great feedback! What I ment by "obsolete" is that the word seems to have become "obsolete" but maybe after this it will come back into fashion.
Demi Ebrite Jul 27, 2008:
Thanks allp ~ I would guess then that the reference to *tulip* most likely means extravagantly dressed, but I find the description of him being 'beau nasty', and unclean smelling, to be odd - I can't see the fit . . . hopefully it will become clear!
allp (asker) Jul 27, 2008:
debrite: no, it is a novel by a modern author, set in the 1820s. As it deals with the London society, I guess that the climate of Thackeray is unavoidable, but nothing more than that, no explicit references. The lady is separated from her companions by the crowd attending the concert and finds herself stuck between the two characters mentioned, so I have just this one sentence. The concert is public but there's an entrance fee to the park, so anybody attending must be reasonably well-off. I'm not sure if there were any Indian or Middle Eastern people living in London at that time who could attend such an event. Anyway, there's no mention od the man's foreigness. He could be a homosexual, as there are some characters from the demi-monde present in the book. Or he could be just a showy and overdressed young man. I'm not sure, and as I see six different answers, I guess nobody can be sure ;)
Demi Ebrite Jul 27, 2008:
allp, does this have anything to do with William Thackeray's "Vanity Fair: A Novel without a Hero"?
Cagdas Karatas Jul 27, 2008:
I really couldn't get which word in the passage denotes homosexuality. On the contrary, I believe the guy to be a hetero because he is in company of (perhaps the suitor of) a woman. The dictionary just defines "tulip" as a showy person.
Demi Ebrite Jul 27, 2008:
allp, are there any clues in the text with respect to the person being Middle Eastern, or possibly homosexual? Considering the times mentioned, I don't know what to think without more context. I DO love all these wonderful answers!
warren Jul 26, 2008:
This is an interesting question because of the variation of answers, after checking the links provided for the answers I still don't feel able to give an opinion although I will say the term "obsolete" seems quite applicable. (I've never heard it)?

Responses

+5
5 mins
Selected

a showy person or thing

OED says so.

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Note added at 7 dakika (2008-07-26 16:33:18 GMT)
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That person or thing is also the one greatly admired, I forgot to add.

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Note added at 2 saat (2008-07-26 18:56:57 GMT)
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I can't help adding. In Turkish slang, we often use "lale" (tulip) for "asshole."

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Note added at 8 saat (2008-07-27 00:28:11 GMT)
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From THACKERAY's Ravenswing (1837)

"Morgiana was a tulip among women, and the tulip fanciers all came flocking round her."
Peer comment(s):
agree Demi Ebrite : Good find! 'Tulip' is my brand new slang for use when I am driving! Only you will know! :>
10 hrs
Thank you, Demi.
agree Jackie Bowman : Yes. Anything along these lines. Someone who is ostentatious, gaudy. flashy etc. The full-length OED has several appropriate examples.
21 hrs
Thank you, Jackie.
agree warren : It is very interesting that there is present day usage in Turkish slang.
1 day 6 hrs
Turkish humour magazines "Leman" and "Lemanyak" used to have a section called "Haftanın Laleleri" (Tulips of the Week). Fatih Terim always came first or second but was never out! :D
agree Jean-Louis S.
1 day 23 hrs
Thank you.
agree Phong Le
2 days 10 hrs
Thank you.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "It's really hard to decide upon the man's sexual orientation going by just one sentence, so showiness seems the best option. Thank you, everybody, for a very interesting discussion!"
3 mins

turban

From the definition:

"Word History: Although we associate tulips with Holland, both the flower and its name originated in the Middle East, where both are associated with turbans. Tulips were brought to Europe in the 16th century; the word tulip, which earlier in English appeared in such forms as tulipa or tulipant, came to us by way of French tulipe and its obsolete form tulipan or by way of Modern Latin tulīpa, from Ottoman Turkish tülbend, "muslin, gauze." (Our word turban, first recorded in English in the 16th century, can also be traced to Ottoman Turkish tülbend.) The Turkish word for gauze, with which turbans can be wrapped, seems to have been used for the flower because a fully opened tulip was thought to resemble a turban."
Reference:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tulip

Peer comment(s):
neutral warren : your background is correct as alway's but in this case doesn't seem to fit.
1 day 6 hrs
Thank you Warren. I think Çağdaş has the closest definition of the term, yet I am still baffled by the smelly part - what a lot of interesting and varying input for 'tulip'!! Now I can use the Turkish slang when I drive! T.Y. for that, Çağdaş! :>
Something went wrong...
+2
8 mins

male homosexual (obsolete)

Peer comment(s):
agree juvera
2 hrs
:)
neutral warren : maybe yes maybe no. From the other references, the type of person refered to as a "tulip" could have been anything i.e. hetro-, bi-, homo- or nonsexual.
1 day 5 hrs
I too think this might be on the fence - typically, homosexuals are very clean; nowdays anyway..
agree Sven Petersson
6 days
:)
Something went wrong...
+2
22 mins

someone whose looks or behavior mark them as unusual

from New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English
Reference:

http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=mAdUqLrKw4YC&pg=PA2015&lpg=PA2015&dq=tulip+slang+dictionary&source=web&ots=t0L93SffzH&sig=S2eCJCp5FycsVo

Peer comment(s):
agree warren : seems to fit
1 day 5 hrs
agree Demi Ebrite
1 day 8 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...
+2
27 mins

pansy; poof; fagot

male homo
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : 'pansy' would be OK, and equivalent register; but both 'poof' and 'faggot' are very injurious and would be quite the wrong register for this text. / Whatever the rest of text, it's clear from extract given 'tulip' is not intended to be seriously injurious
34 mins
Not having seen the whole text, I really could not say.
agree Janet Cannon : with Tony
3 hrs
Not having seen the whole text, I really could not say.
neutral warren : maybe yes maybe no... Because it is a kind of an association thing, i.e. the "type" of person which may have been refered to as a "tulip" some other "type" of person may just refer to as a homosexual. I found the other references more plausible
1 day 5 hrs
??????????????????????
agree juvera : As you say, pansy is a good alternative.
6 days
Thank you very much!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

overdressed tulip

Why not just that, litétally an "overdressed tulip" ?

Could fit well with "beau nasty" :

DGD / botanique :

nasty = nastie n. f.

Définition :

A tendency of a plant organ, such as a bud, petal, or leaf, to move in a direction determined especially by the nature and structure of the organ, rather than by external stimulus.
Note from asker:
You mean a flower? No, I'm afraid not, it's clearly a man.
Peer comment(s):
neutral warren : could be but I don't think so, the last time I was in NL - or anywhere else - I haven't see any. So in this case they really have become obsolete.
1 day 3 hrs
neutral Tony M : Were this an actual translation question, I would tend to agree; but in this case, Asker has requested an explanation of the meaning of the term, so this really skirts the issue, don't you think?
1 day 11 hrs
Thanks Tony !
Something went wrong...
+2
15 hrs

fop; dandy; beau

Here's a nice quote from a site that gives more info:
As Robert Anderson writes in “Spring: A Fragment,” from his Poems on Various Subjects, published in 1798,
How different seems the tulip, gaudy flow’r!
How gaily deck’d, yet priz’d but for its shew!
So shines the witless beau—vain, tinsell’d thing!—
That glides thro’ life unnotic’d but for dress.
http://www.erudit.org/revue/ron/2004/v/n36-37/011136ar.html

See also:
NETBible: fop
- [ Traduire cette page ]
fop, n. an affectedly elegant or fashionable man; a dandy. ... gaudy as a peacock, gaudy as a butterfly, gaudy as a tulip, flaunting, flashing, flaming, ...
net.bible.org/lexicon.php?word=fop

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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-07-27 10:40:39 GMT)
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Note to asker: As you suggested, the tulip is often referred to as a gaudy flower (although I find that rather unfair on most tulips), and that's the image when it's used for a person.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Seems like the best solution to me here; perhaps avoiding 'beau', because of its use immediately following...
59 mins
Thanks Tony - As it's an Eng/Eng question, I imagine the asker is interested in more common synonyms and explanations
agree warren : seems to fit
14 hrs
Thanks
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 1 hr

pretentious, chucklehead, fool

Perhaps tulip attributes originate from Tulip mania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

denoting beauty, sudden richness, hence pretentiousness

We use it in slang like:
Why don’t you say so you tulip you; as in “fool” or
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chucklehead
Informal
A stupid, gauche person; a blockhead

Or as already suggested overdressed fop
Peer comment(s):
agree warren : seems to fit
4 hrs
Thank you, in Croatia we have tulips and "tulips"
neutral Tony M : 'pretentious (person)', maybe; but neither 'chucklehead' nor 'fool' seems appropriate here, as it is fairly obviously referring to his appearance, not his intellect / Yes, but that's over-translation; he might not be foolishly overdressed.
12 hrs
Right, thank you Tony! Since that tulip is being overdressed (perhaps just for wearing winter formal clothes in summer, hence beau nasty,) I gave examples in use similar to: One who acts unwisely on a given occasion: I was a fool to have quit my job
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