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Stressful countertransference dynamics are manifest in the therapist’s capacity
to see that human beings don’t fight
Apr 22 10:19
7 mos ago
53 viewers *
English term

disclude

English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy Inclusion/Exclusion
The sentence:

"One time—this was, like, a long time ago—I was new in this school, but these people at the school used to judge me because of my skin color and used to disclude me and make fun of me,” Alex, a student of about 10, said to classmates as part of a study my colleagues and I conducted.

According (for instance) to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disclude, this is a "non standard" way to say "exclude, not include or remove from inclusion".
I strongly doubt that a 10 years old addressing a classroom would make subtle distinctions between, say, "exclude" and "remove from "inclusion". thus, I have a question: Am I reasonably right in supposing that Alex has probably picked up this word from the researchers themselves (or from some other psychologists) during some kind of project/intervention in her/his school, without realizing that it is a non standard word that is generally used to make a subtle distinction - and is using "declude" to mean just "exclude"? Maybe in the attempt to "raise the tone", so to speak, of his speech?

This is relevant for my translation into Italian, where - not having a word exactly like "desclude" - I have to decide between normalizing in "escludere" and inventing a plausible, incorrect "word" that Alex might have misheard, picked up and decided to use (such as, for instance "marginare", while the correct word is "emarginare").

Thanks to all that have patiently read all this!
Responses
3 +4 exclude, keep out, leave out
3 +2 disclude
3 +1 NOT standard English - put it in quotes or the like
References
refs

Discussion

Alfredo Tutino (asker) Apr 24:
thanks a lot to all... ...those who contributed to the discussion, posted an answer, or added a comment. This has been a useful and enjoyable discussion.
Alfredo Tutino (asker) Apr 22:
@Jennifer Thank you. I was thinking exactly along these lines. And "editing" by the author is surely a real possibility here and elsewhere . In the article, however, "disclude", is used only once, as uttered by Alex.
Jennifer Levey Apr 22:
Another possible 'edit' by the author 'skin color' is not a part of the natural vocabulary of a 10 year old kid - it's what the PC community tries to impose, even when it would be better to quote the kid's words of self-identification verbatim.
Jennifer Levey Apr 22:
Longer quote from ST ... ... seems to suggest the use of terms picked up from adults - or perhaps substituted by the interviewer to give a rendering of the kid's language that may be more meaningful to the target readership (academics).

Another potentially 'suspect' word is 'escalated' - unless this 10 year old kid was particularly erudite despite the frequent use of 'like', 'kind of', 'stuff' and other kid-speak.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-of-re...
"One time—this was, like, a long time ago—I was new in this school, but these people at the school used to judge me because of my skin color and used to disclude me and make fun of me,” Alex, a student of about 10, said to classmates as part of a study my colleagues and I conducted. (Students’ names have been changed for confidentiality.) “I wanted to be their friend. I kind of just, like, ignored them, but they still found a way to get to me. So, like, every single day I went crying to my mom and told her what happened. She just told me to ignore them, but that didn’t help, and it just, like, escalated to the point where I had to see a counselor and stuff."
Elisabeth Richard Apr 22:
exclude Unless you can ask the researcher (it is unlikely that you could ask Alex!), the safest best is to go with the regular translation of exclude, in my opinion. It seems like there is no way for you go into subtleties of whether that was an error (which is very plausible), or an actual meaning of the word disclude (whether old meaning or neologism), which Alex would have presumably recently learned from adults. I personally would translate this as exclude and leave a note for my client, saying you translated it as exclude, but the actual word used is "disclude" which is an uncommon word, surprising for a 10yo, and which could either be an error or mean [list the possible meanings].
Alfredo Tutino (asker) Apr 22:
@ Nicholas This is from a piece of science journalism (from Scientific American, for the Italian edition of the magazine). Here, as so often in journalism, quoted sentences are used to enliven the article and convey a sense of authenticity; and the attempt to reproduce a sort of kid-speech seems intentional (see "like" - an "empty" word -; the demonstrative adjectives in "this school" and "these people", the periphrastic ""used to + infinitive" to speak of past events; and more in other sentences in the rest of the article). I'd like - if I can do it in a reasonably natural and unobtrusive way, to reproduce this in my language.
Elisabeth Richard Apr 22:
exclude Unless you can ask the researcher (it is unlikely that you could ask Alex!), the safest best is to go with the regular translation of exclude, in my opinion. It seems like there is no way for you go into subtleties of whether that was an error (which is very plausible), or an actual meaning of the word disclude (whether old meaning or neologism), which Alex would have presumably recently learned from adults. I personally would translate this as exclude and leave a note for my client, saying you translated it as exclude, but the actual word used is "disclude" which is an uncommon word, surprising for a 10yo, and which could either be an error or mean [list the possible meanings].
Michael Beijer Apr 22:
hmm since the kid is only 10 years old, your guess is as good as mine ;-)
Alfredo Tutino (asker) Apr 22:
I think so too. But do you think s/he used a non-standard word by mistake or by choice?
Michael Beijer Apr 22:
neologism? disclude does seem to be used here and there (especially in relatively recent contexts), sort of as a cross between exclude and discriminate against

https://www.google.com/search?q="disclude" exclude discrimin...
Nicholas Laurier Eveneshen Apr 22:
Exclude In context, "exclude" makes the most sense and is what was probably originally meant by the speaker. If you want to include the incorrect term to accurately represent what the child was trying to say, you could also put "disclude" in italics to let the reader know the child is trying to say something like "exclude" but erroneously. I could only ever see the erroneous term being relevant for literature, though; normally, you'd want to have the proper term there to avoid confusion.
Michael Beijer Apr 22:
exclude? wonder if he meant to say "exclude"? since he says "because of my skin color "

exclude: deny (someone) access to a place, group, or privilege.

Responses

+4
20 mins
Selected

exclude, keep out, leave out

"Disclude" is not a valid word, at least in US English. Alex must have made it up subconsciously through "lexical association" > "dis" = not, opposite of, e.g. disagree, dislike. Such errors are pretty common, especially in children's language production.
Peer comment(s):
agree liz askew : I think this is more likely
1 hr
Thank you, Liz.
agree philgoddard : I can imagine this prefix substitution happening in the other direction - 'we was exmissed from school'.
2 hrs
Thank you, Phil. Yes! :-)
agree Chris Says Bye
2 hrs
Thank you, Christopher.
agree Christine Andersen
2 hrs
Thank you, Christine.
neutral Toni Castano : I agree with your suggestion (exclude), but disagree with your perception that "disclude" "is not a valid word". Please read here: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/129015/is-disclu...
3 hrs
If people use it commonly, then it becomes "valid". It is definitely non-standard, and it is used rarely.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is correct indeed, but I feel that the most helpful contribution was made by Jennifer. Still, thank you very much to you! I shall not go into the "non valid vs. non-standard" question: I feel descriptive and prescriptive attitudes to languages have different purposes, but both may be useful. "
+2
22 mins

disclude

I'd say the term is actually correct English. See my discussion entries and ref comment.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2024-04-22 10:49:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"disclude" does seem to be a neologism used here and there (especially in relatively recent contexts), sort of as a cross between exclude and discriminate against

see e.g.: https://www.google.com/search?q="disclude" exclude discrimin...
Example sentence:

Perceptions and experiences of 'macho' cultures were reported to alienate and disclude some engineers, particularly women.

The specter also depends upon essentialisms regarding sex-gender identity and expression, seeking to disclude from the category of “woman” not only trans women, but also those who often occupy feminized subject positions due to the nature of their wor

Peer comment(s):
agree Toni Castano : Yes, why not. Languages evolve as people do: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/129015/is-disclu... "Standard or not, I do wonder why so many people keep asking for an authority (...)".
3 hrs
Thanks!
agree Adrian MM. : like 'disapply' as a transitive verb, though queried by native English speakers who ought to know better.
3 hrs
Thanks Adrian!
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

NOT standard English - put it in quotes or the like

Your thoughts are correct, Alfredo: 'disclude' is a NON-standard, little-used word and 'exclude' is NOT its first meaning! Meaning is 1) to disclose in the sense of made known 2) to exclude. I also doubt a 10-year-old would use this word in this sense, on her/his own. It is being adapted here. I don't know your text, but would try to indicate that this is not standard English.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2006/03/30/dont-include... in the sense of

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disclude
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
1 hr
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

19 mins
Reference:

refs

https://premium.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/di...

disclude
VERB

1. To separate, keep apart; to exclude.
Somewhat rare and nonstandard since 18th century.

2. Dentistry. To cause (opposing teeth) to fail to meet when the jaws are closed. Also without object: (of opposing teeth) to fail to meet.
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