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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

dropout voltage

French translation:

tension de décrochage

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2018-04-16 16:54:08 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Apr 13, 2018 11:58
6 yrs ago
6 viewers *
English term

dropout voltage

English to French Tech/Engineering Energy / Power Generation Power supply
Motors experience PQ failures. Oftentimes, they are caused
by voltage sags that occur for more than one minute –
causing motor controllers to dropout. The dropout voltage
of motor controllers is typically 70% to 80% of nominal
voltage. Long duration voltage sags can cause heating in
induction motors because of the increased current drawn by
the motor.
Proposed translations (French)
4 +2 tension de décrochage
4 -2 tension de déchet ou de relâchement

Discussion

Johannes Gleim Apr 14, 2018:
@ Tony & FX Regarding google hits, please cf._

tension de décrochage About 935.000 results
'tension de décrochage' About 935.000 results
i.e. the 2nd operator ' is irrelevant, other than "
"tension de décrochage" About 5 results

Why that difference? Obviously du to wrong operator, see:
Search for an exact match
Put a word or phrase inside quotes. For example, "tallest building".
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433

Goggle results are also different if combined with other terms and/or from different languages and/or spelling
Examples:
"tension de décrochage" "drop-out voltage" About 7 results
"tension de décrochage" "dropout voltage" About 5 results

Anyway, each term has sufficient Ghits, and should be investigated consequently. That’s why I repeat my question: Do you agree to "tension de relâchement"? You both disagreed to "tension de déchet", but not to "tension de relâchement". A fair verdict would be "Neutral" acc. MHO.
Tony M Apr 13, 2018:
@ Johannes That's funny, I think the problem must be that you are using Google in German: when I search for that exact term, I get 118,000+ results!
On the first page, all of the results are more or less relevant, in various related contexts.
This compare favourably to the 40,000+ Ghits I find for 'tension de déchet' — a large enough difference to suggest that the former is at least slightly more widespread than the latter.
And only 16,000 Ghits for 'tension de relâchement' — again, a fairly reliable indication this probably isn't the most widespread term.

The problem is, 'tension de décrochage' historically has a meaning close to the usage here, whereas 'tension de déchet' is a more recent term, and also applies to other contexts — can you see there is a difference between referring to the PARALLEL input voltage (as in the context here) and the SERIES voltage drop, which is the primary meaning of 'tension de déchet', as indicated in the various refs. to do with regulators. In my view, that creates an ambiguity that would be undesirable in this specific context.
Johannes Gleim Apr 13, 2018:
@ Tony I know this. But you will see from my references that "dropout" has different definitions for different applications and that my proposals are related to each of them. Obviously the term "tension de relâchement" fits the context while I could not confirm the term "tension de décrochage" you supports so much, what indeed relates to the relay release voltage.
On the other hand I have no answer to my question regarding the equivalency of "tension de relâchement" and "tension de décrochage" and/or dropout voltage.

Moreover, I do miss relevant references for "tension de décrochage"except for thé broken link to Tornatech.
Tony M Apr 13, 2018:
@ Johannes Theer is really no need to trouble poor Asker demanding unnecessary extra context — it is all there and well explained in the context given.
If the incoming voltage falls too far for too long, the motor controller deliberately 'drops out' (i.e. stops the motor) in order to avoid the motor's being damaged by prolonged running at under-voltage.
This is absolutely standard practice in electrical engineering.
It has nothing to do with other terms that might refer to a motor 'stalling' for example, as you seem to be seeking to suggest.
Johannes Gleim Apr 13, 2018:
@ JC Please check, what the "dropout voltage" refers to. It may mean that the motor relay have switched off the motor. But this contradicts the statement "Long duration voltage sags can cause heating in induction motors because of the increased current drawn by the motor". It may also mean that the motor is slipping or blocked due to low voltages at the terminals, if the resulting torque is below the mechanical resistance of the driven machine.
Johannes Gleim Apr 13, 2018:
@ JC "tension d'amorçage" is totally "wrong!

Electronics and electrical engineering [COM] Full entry
FR
tension d'amorçage
tension de rupture
tension disruptive
tension de claquage
tension de désamorçage
EN
breakdown tension
breakdown voltage
disruption voltage
disruptive voltage
dielectric breakdown voltage
http://iate.europa.eu/SearchByQuery.do

For details see http://iate.europa.eu/SearchByQuery.do?method=searchDetail&l...

Proposed translations

+2
5 mins
Selected

tension de décrochage

"Guide de conception des réseaux électriques ... - Automation Sense
http://www.automation-sense.com/.../guide-de-conception-des-...
Moteur asynchrone à rotor bobiné (ou à bagues) avec cascade hyposynchrone..............227. 3.3.3.3. ...... Le contrôleur d'isolement et les détecteurs associés à des tores installés sur chaque départ permettent de suivre ...... la chute de tension instantanée maximale admissible ou la tension de décrochage Vdec , qui définit la ..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-04-13 15:18:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Les réglages d’usine sont toujours pré-configurés à l’usine et définissent les principaux paramètres du contrôleur.
La plupart des réglages trouvés sur cette page ne peuvent être modifiés que par un employé qualifié de Tornatech et sont protégés par un mot de passe de niveau 8.
Tension de décrochage normal : Pourcentage de tension nominale sous lequel la de la source de tension normale sera disqualifiée (après expiration du délai de coupure normal).
Tension de lecteur normale : Pourcentage de tension nominale au-dessus duquel la de la source de tension normale sera requalifiée (après expiration du temps de retransfert).
Coupure normale : Délai après lequel l’alimentation normale peut être disqualifiée.
Tension de décrochage alternatif : Pourcentage de tension nominale sous lequel la source de tension alternative sera disqualifiée."
1 manuel d'installation et de maintenance pour contrôleur ... - Tornatech
https://www.tornatech.com/.../fichiers/GPX GPU-manual-FR.pd

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2018-04-13 18:27:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you try a minimum, there is no such thing as a "broken link" ; just copy and paste the text, and you will get the PDF.
https://www.tornatech.com/fichiersUpload/fichiers/MPA-Manual...
Note from asker:
Merci, j'ai également trouvé "tension de désamorçage", ce qui confirme
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : That's definitely the right term in THIS context! Originally, it was the voltage at which a relay would no long hold in; by extension nowadays, it means the voltage at which almost anything can "no longer do its job properly"!
30 mins
disagree Johannes Gleim : Sorry, « décrochage » is pulling out of synchronism or breakdown, what is different from drop-out voltage. http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev... http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...
2 hrs
vos références ne sont pas pertinentes : décrocahge de COUPLE. Perte de SYNCHRONISME. Cela ne s'applique pas à la tension des contrôleurs de moteurs.
agree Kim Metzger
2 hrs
agree HERBET Abel : Oui bien sûr
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-2
1 hr

tension de déchet ou de relâchement

Domain INDUSTRY, ENERGY, Information technology and data processing
en
Term drop out voltage
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. Reg. 1572/93 (1) OJ L 156/93 p.106 Reg. 1556/95 (2) OJ L 152/95 p.104

fr
Term tension de relâchement
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. Reg. 1572/93 (1) OJ L 156/93 p.106
http://iate.europa.eu/SearchByQuery.do?method=searchDetail&l...

omain Electronics and electrical engineering, Information technology and data processing
en
Term drop out voltage
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. OJ L 158/1996
Term Note voltage regulators

fr
Term tension de déchet
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. JO L 158/1996
Term Note régulateurs de tension
http://iate.europa.eu/SearchByQuery.do?method=searchDetail&l...

"tension de relâchement" About 13.100 results (0,32 seconds)
"tension de déchet" About 36.900 results (0,37 seconds)

LDO veut dire en anglais : Low Dropout. Ce sont des régulateurs dont la tension de déchet entre l’entrée et la sortie est très faible.
https://www.electronique-radioamateur.fr/elec/composants/reg...

Cette différence de tension minimale, appelée tension de déchet, peut poser problème pour certains montages alimentés sur pile ou consommant beaucoup de courant. C'est pourquoi certains fabricants proposent des régulateurs de tension à faible tension de déchet, qui peut descendre à quelques dizièmes de volt (0,1V ou 0,5V par exemple). Ces régulateurs sont appelés LDO, pour Low Drop Out (faible chute de tension, 0,5V par exemple), ou VLDO, pour Very Low Drop Out (0,1V par exemple).
https://www.sonelec-musique.com/electronique_theorie_reg_ten...

(54) Régulateur de tension à faible tension de dechet et faible courant de repos
:
[0003] La différence minimale entre les tensions d'entrée et de sortie qui permet encore au régulateur à faible tension de déchet de réguler la tension de sortie est connue sous le nom de "tension de déchet" ("drop out voltage").
https://data.epo.org/publication-server/html-document-maximi...
DROP OUT VOLTAGE RANGE / TENSION DE RELACHEMENT : 1 to / à 3 Vdc
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

-d'autres sigles d'identification se rapportant à des circuits qui satisfont à la présente description0 ex 8542 19 50Régulateur de tension avec un courant de repos de 75 mA et une tension de relâchement de 380 mV à 100 mA, sous forme de circuit intégré monolithique analogique, enserré dans un boîtier dont les dimensions extérieures n'excèdent pas 7×11 mm, comportant au maximum 8 connexions, et portant:
EurLex-2
-other identification markings relating to devices complying with the abovementioned description0 ex 8542 19 50Voltage regulators with a quiescent current of 75 mA and a drop out voltage of 380 mV at 100 mA, in the form of a monolithic integrated analogue circuit, contained in a housing the exterior dimensions of which do not exceed 7×11 mm, with not more than 8 connections and bearing:
https://fr.glosbe.com/fr/en/tension de relâchement

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 Stunden (2018-04-13 15:18:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What is voltage dropout ?
Dropout is the smallest difference between a regulator’s input and its output voltage, which is required to maintain regulation and enable the regulator to provide rated voltage and current. It is important to have a low dropout voltage for increased efficiency and minimal heat dissipation.
https://www.sunpower-uk.com/glossary/what-is-voltage-dropout...

The dropout voltage is the minimum voltage required across the regulator to maintain regulation.
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(Texas Instruments)

Le problème est que les Aop imposés (contraintes spatiales) ont une tension de déchet de 3 à 4V, pour le 21V c'est insuffisant.
Avez vous une idée pour réduire la tension de déchet résultante, j'avais pensé à un suiveur fait d'un transistor en sortie de l'Aop qui me réduirait la tension de déchet à 700mV, mais cette solution n'est pas très stable.
http://www.abcelectronique.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67464

Attention : si l'AOP est alimenté en mono-tension (broche d'alim V- reliée à la masse par exemple, ce point est abordé plus loin) alors sa sortie délivre une tension égale à sa tension de déchet, tant que la tension d'entrée (appliquée sur l'entrée non-inverseuse) est inférieure à cette tension de déchet. Exemple : si la tension de déchet de l'AOP est de 1 V sur le rail V-, alors toute tension d'entrée comprise entre 0 V et +1 V conduira à une tension de +1 V en sortie.
https://www.sonelec-musique.com/electronique_theorie_aop.htm...

La tension de déchet correspond donc au "dropout voltage", au moins pour les AOPs and régulateurs

And for relays?

The dropout voltage is the maximum voltage below which a closed switch will open. For example, for the same "12V" relay, the dropout voltage is 3.3 V.
http://relaysbc.sourceforge.net/relays.html

"Dropout voltage" shows how low the coil voltage must go to turn "off" again. It will always turn off at 10% or lower. The value may be higher (though not as high as the rated pickup voltage.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256304/what-...

Is it the same as "tension de relâchement"?

drop-out voltage n ELEC ENG tension de relâchement f, tension de retombée f
https://books.google.de/books?id=hU8qBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA220&lpg=P...

tension de relâchement f Rückfallspannung f drop-out voltage
https://books.google.de/books?id=_sbQBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA369&lpg=P...

Tension de relâchement/Release voltage 0,8 VDC
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(Celduc)

Zelio Time - relais temporisé travail - 3..300s - 240Vca/cc - statique
[Us] tension d'alimentation 24…240 V CA/CC à 50/60 Hz
Tension de déchet <= 3 V fermé contact(s) 0,7 A
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(Schneider Electric)

Plage de tension de commande (selon EN60947-4-2) 10->24VDC
Tension de déchet max. 2,5VDC
Tension de relâchement Ut>2,5VDC
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(Celduc)

Tension d’enclenchement à l’état 1 logique >= 14 V~
Tension de relâchement à l’état 0 logique <= 5 V~
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(Crouzet)

Conclusion: "tension de relâchement" and "tension de déchet" are the same as "dropout voltage", at least for relays.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 Stunden (2018-04-13 18:45:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Still another reliable reference:

drop-out / perte de niveau (ELF) | (relay) / mise f au repos, déclenchement m, retombée f
~ value (relay) / tension f de déclenchement, tension f de désexitation, tension f de mise au repos
(Comprehensive Dictionary of Engineering and Technology, English-French) from my shelf.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Certainly not 'tension de déchet', which is something quite different — the minimum volts drop across a regulator at which it can still regulate; from the last ref., 'tension de relâchement' appears to be the same thing as 'tension de déchet'.
30 mins
The same thing as "tension de décrochage" you agreed to? Did you check all my proposals and references, including that of my annex?
disagree FX Fraipont (X) : la "tension de déchet" concerne les amplificateurs opérationnels http://forums.futura-sciences.com/electronique/357551-tensio...
1 hr
et les relais! Voir mon annexe.
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