Eliza Hall Dec 7, 2018:

PS To clarify, point (1) below (régimes matrimoniaux/how property is owned when a couple is married) tells you, under US law and I think also UK, about the rights of creditors. For instance, can the creditor of Spouse A get money/property owned by Spouse B to pay off that debt?

In other words, is Spouse B responsible for any of Spouse A's debt? And if so, what debt of A is B responsible for? In a community property state, Spouse B may be on the hook for debt that Spouse A incurred after the marriage, but not for pre-marriage debt. Or B may be responsible for debt A incurred for any mutually beneficial purpose. Etc. Answering questions like that is what the "régime matrimonial" does.

Point (2) below is not about creditors or anyone outside the marriage. It's just about which spouse gets what property in the event of a divorce. How they held their property during marriage does not determine how it gets divided or who gets what during a divorce, under US/UK law.

And back to the main point: if you have a legal term in the source language, it needs to be translated either with an equivalent *legal term* in the target language, or with an explanation. "Undivided shares" fails that test

Eliza Hall Dec 7, 2018:

@ John re separate vs. community property What you've said about community vs. separate property and civil-law jurisdictions is true, but beside the point. These concepts are two different things:

1. How property is owned when a couple is married (le régime matrimonial: séparation des biens, community property, etc.).

2. How property is divided when a couple divorces. In jurisdictions where equitable property division is the general rule in the absence of some other rule (e.g. in the absence of a prenuptial agreement), it *does not matter* how the property was titled or owned when the couple was married. EVERYTHING acquired during the marriage by either spouse, with just a few designated exceptions (e.g. an inheritance received by one spouse), is considered "marital property" and is divided roughly equally. (And, of course, there's no such thing as "shares," plural -- each spouse gets their roughly 50% share or part, but "undivided shares" is not the right translation).

This translation concerns property division after a divorce (point 2). To the extent that a French régime mat. functions as a de facto prenup, it's relevant, but "undivided shares" still isn't the translation--that's not a US/UK divorce law term.

John Fossey Dec 7, 2018:

Undivided shares In jurisdictions governed by a civil code, such as France and Quebec, the spouses' property is indeed shared under the law governing community of property. This is unlike common law jurisdictions such as most of the United States and the UK, in which spouses are "separate as to property" by default. In a civil code jurisdiction and in the absence of an ante-nuptial or post-nuptial contract setting out a regime of separation as to property, post-divorce division of property can be complex and require a judicial decision.

Eliza Hall Dec 6, 2018:

Undivided shares - no Married couples have marital property, but there's no such thing as shares in marital property. The indivision here sounds like property was not able to be divided because it was real estate that the wife was still living in. She owes him rent, basically ("l'indemnité de l'occupation") because she enjoyed the use of the house for a few years after their divorce, instead of them selling the house and splitting the proceeds. (Sometimes this happens because the couple wants their kids to keep living there until the nest is empty; sometimes because they owe so much on the house that it makes more sense to wait a few years to sell).

So she is liable for an occupancy payment for continuing to live in the marital home for X years after the divorce.

EvaVer (X) Dec 5, 2018:

Not sure how to call it in EN There was a "communauté des biens entre époux", it ended with the divorce, but they are still co-owners of the house (= indivision) after the "communauté" (=post-communautaire). Does this help?