This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Oct 4, 2017 15:01
7 yrs ago
22 viewers *
French term

ayant-droit évincé

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Articles of Association
This is taken from Articles of Association which I am proofreading.

"Article 12 Mutations par décès
Les frais d'expertise sont supportés moitié par la société, moitié par la succession ou par les ayants-droits évincés, selon le cas"


The suggested translation is "displaced beneficiaries", which I can't find any examples of in similar contexts.
Can anyone help?
Thanks.

Discussion

Daryo Oct 17, 2017:
Le Petit Robert is one of the best FR FR dictionary ever, but nowadays you have available many other sources that are several orders of magnitudes bigger and better, the biggest of them all being the Web.
Adam Warren Oct 10, 2017:
Refer to a reliable source: Evict: the entry in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary gives as the prime meaning, "to recover by a judicial process, or in virtue of a superior title", wich entirely fits the facts and at least partly vindicates both Daryo, whose term by this test is correct, and fourth, who gives a clear definition, although a trifle lengthy. In this connection, early on in my translatorship at the OECD, one of my revisers said that if there was any doubt about the meaning or suitability of a term, it should be looked up in a standard source: the Shorter Oxford is more rigorous than tenth edition of the COD, and the Petit Robert is of similar stature to the first-named.
Daryo Oct 6, 2017:
@ Hazel Underwood Thanks for this link - this article "Mutations par décès" is obviously a standard/typical clause that gets copy-pasted (possibly with some minor variations) from one set of Articles of Association to the next!

(can't resist to add this: I very much doubt that the lawyers preparing the text of the Articles of Association are expected to give discounts on the grounds of "repetitions" and "fuzzy matches" ..., and of course deliver for yesterday)

What is different is that when asking for help for the same term one translator provides the full text of the article, while the other one expects usable proposed translations after basically posting a rebus!
Daryo Oct 5, 2017:
@ Asker The more context you omit and leave implied, the more you risk the implied elements being just ignored, although they should be pretty obvious.

In practical terms, could you confirm whether or not

"les ayants-droits évincés"

means

"les ayants-droits évincés de la société"

the ST being the "Articles of Association" of a company, I can't see anything else making sense, especially in an article entitled "Mutations par décès" / "change of ownership following s.o.'s death"

there is no way that the company can dictate the will of a shareholder, but what a private company can do is to decide to refuse to transfer the shares and force the heirs to accept money instead. But OTOH you never know what kind of peculiar arrangement someone could dream up ...


Proposed translations

1 hr

beneficiary dispossessed by virtue of a superior right

Page 119 FHS Bridge
Cornu: évincé: celui qui subit l'eviction
Peer comment(s):

disagree Daryo : "dispossessed" would imply "simply taken away, without any compensation" - I very much doubt that it's the case in this ST
6 hrs
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : This strikes me as accurate for meaning, although the explanation probably needs reformulating to a form of words that fit better.
19 hrs
agree Adam Warren : Judicially or lawfully evicted, perhaps? *Pace* Nikki and Daryo - see my discussion entry
6 days
disagree Francois Boye : this wordiness is not a translation
6 days
agree Yvonne Gallagher : rather wordy but meaning is correct
26 days
Something went wrong...
-1
3 hrs

displaced heir

'heir' because there is an estate to divide up

'displaced' because an heir can be displaced



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2017-10-05 08:25:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See Step Two


How To Steal an Estate

June 15, 2007

Organized Crime has a Procedures Manual for destroying families and stealing their estates. It’s NOT pretty.  Knowing how these crimes work will help you to protect yourself and your loved ones. Many people report very similar experiences.  Here it is…

STEP ONE: Assess Opportunities & Establish Yourself
Identify Elderly Affluent People Who Are Alone – Target people who live alone and whose children or heirs live and work out of state.
Elderly Childless People Are Good  – Children and grandchildren are hard but not impossible to displace. Childless people may not have obvious heirs making it much easier for you to establish your position.
Assess Their Estate Decisions – How large is their estate? Do they have a will? How strongly do they feel about the disposition of their assets? The greater their uncertainty, the better it is for you.
Avoid Worthwhile Causes – People who want to leave their estates to worthwhile causes must see you as being more deserving than their cause. Charities are skilled at maintaining close ties with their donors.
Aversion to Extended Care – The best targets have a horror of nursing homes and extended care facilities and have a strong desire to continue living in their home until they die. Convince them their heirs will put them away and that you will help them stay independent until the end.

Length of Life Span – Unless your target is terminally ill or very elderly, expect this to be a long term project. Once you are sole beneficiary you will still need to defend your position until they expire. You obviously want the money as soon as possible. Ways to hasten their death are not posted on this site.

Become a Close Neighbor – This is by far the best and easiest way to ensure access and influence. It allows you to monitor all their activities and all their other relationships.

Create Reasons to See Them Often, Daily is Best – Find legitimate reasons to see them often to gain their trust, build influence and eventual control of them.

Alcohol Helps – Alcohol lowers people’s resistance, raises their susceptibility to suggestion, makes them relax, feel good and festive. It’s easy to manipulate alcoholics and make them angry and emotional.

People Are Especially Susceptible To Suggestion When Sleepy – During those hazy, lazy moments when they are just drifting off to sleep or waking up. Visit or telephone when the impact of your communication will linger in their minds long after you finish.
Always be Smiling, Positive and Loving – They must see you as special, especially deserving and associate you with only the most positive, wonderful feelings.

Be Sincere and Genuine – Elderly people are much smarter than they seem and know when they are being worked. Develop a sincere interest in their welfare, it makes you more convincing. As they age they will eventually depend and rely on you to support them.
Approve of Everything They Do – Unconditional Love And Approval Are Absolute Requirements! Separate and differentiate yourself from their heirs and people who disapprove or disagree with them or try to tell them what to do.

Always Take Their Side And Fault Anyone Who Disagrees With Them – This is the GOLDEN RULE! You want them to eventually sever or discount all other relationships so they rely, trust and love only you.
Leave Them On A High Note, Feeling Very Good About You – Treat each interaction as a professional. Each performance must further your goal of showing them you are their ONLY deserving heir.
Talk To Them Like Family – Tell them they are the wonderful father / mother or aunt / uncle you always wish you had. Plant family associations and connections in their mind.
Disappear When Their Family or Children Appear – This is VERY important! If the rightful heirs see what you are doing before you have gained full control, they will stop your relationship. Tell your target you want to respect the time they have with their family and children, this will make you seem especially loving and considerate.
Love What They Love – Whatever they cherish, love it too. Be seen as much nicer than anyone else who might dislike or disapprove of what they love or do.
Get Into A Position Of Trust And Authority – Manage their checkbook, their investments, their grocery money. Whatever you do, be VERY Honest. Your purpose is to show how honorable and trustworthy you are. Don’t steal early, wait for the big prize.

Cash Gifts – Make sure they know how much you really love them and not their money. Get gifts in cash which cannot be easily traced.
Act Like The Perfect Son Or Daughter – Be the perfect child they always wish they had. Appear far more deserving than any of their family members.

Create A Fun Secret Conspiracy, Build Secrecy Early – Tell them their daughter/son/rightful heir might get a little upset and jealous, so let’s just keep it our little secret! Let’s have fun and not tell them! They don’t have a right to know about everything you do any how!
Always Operate in Secret – Do NOT leave any proof or evidence of what you are doing or what you have done.

Keep the Rightful Heirs Ignorant of Your Relationship – If they sense you are becoming too close to their loved one before you have gained complete control, they will worry about your relationship and end it.

STEP TWO: Discredit and DISPLACE THE HEIRS

It’s A Military Campaign – You are investing time and energy to gain control of their estate. If victorious, you will never have to work again. It is a long term project that requires guts, drive, determination, hard work and dirty deeds. Enjoy Doing Evil and Being Ruthless and Cruel.

Your Goal: To Completely Discredit and Disinherit Existing Heirs
Hate The Heirs – You must absolutely hate and despise the heirs you are disinheriting. You need to transfer a vicious, angry hatred to your target so that neither of you feels badly about what you are doing. Show no mercy. Hate is an absolute prerequisite for success.
Spy,  Stalk & Hack Them – Use inexpensive technologies that allow you to do this easily. Yes, it’s illegal, but so is defrauding elderly people and destroying their family relationships.

Truth and Righteousness – Show them the real truth about their heirs, illustrate and explain how their heirs have abused and misused them all their lives.

Collaborate If You Can – Is there an unhappy family member who can help you disinherit the others? Collaborate with them. Make sure you always have more on your collaborator than they have on you.
Turn All Innocent, Well-Intentioned Acts into Damning Condemnations of the Heir’s Misbehavior – Everything they do is wrong. Make sure everyone adopts the same thinking. The heirs have NEVER done anything right.

Restate Reality Into Wrongs – Change innocuous comments into outrageous, inflammatory lies that are loudly and emphatically proclaimed by your collaborators. Lies become verified truth and reality.

SEVER ALL COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE HEIRS – This is VERY IMPORTANT! If your target refuses to communicate with their heirs, the heirs can’t exert influence, change their minds or fight your plans.
Use Anger & Betrayal – Get your target very angry with their heirs and keep them angry so they will cease all communications with the heirs. Make them feel angry, betrayed, devalued, used and abused. Use every tool at your disposal, create conflict every way you can.
Creating Conflict – If reasons to be angry with the heirs don’t exist, create them. The heirs are in the dark, they don’t know what you are doing. Tell damaging lies, falsify letters and “proof” of the heirs horrible dishonesty and misdeeds.

Continue Your Campaign of Conflict with the Heirs – Be relentless. Start small and gradually build over time. Do everything you can to destroy their relationships and any positive memories of their heirs.
Avoid Isolation – Encourage your target to continue their normal activities except those involving the heirs. You want them to appear normal to friends and associates who can validate their feelings. Isolating elderly people can be used to prove undue influence.
Involve An Attorney – The attorney who prepares the will be questioned if the will is challenged. Make sure their attorney supports you and will help you prove that they truly want you to enjoy their entire estate.

Rewrite Reality Repeatedly Over Time – A lie repeated over and over again over time eventually becomes truth. This is one of your most powerful tools. Repeatedly demonstrating what bad people their heirs are will eventually make your target believe it.

Discredit and Disparage – It is very hard to get people to go against long held, deep set beliefs and values. It’s much easier to change their memories and perceptions of reality.

Repeatedly Ridicule and Revile The Heirs – Laugh, make ridicule fun and entertaining. Bond with mutual hatred of the heirs, their greed and all their misdeeds.

Develop a Fun, Secret Conspiracy – Involve your target in fun little dirty tricks that hurt and harm the heirs. Encourage them to enjoy playing tricks to punish their heirs for all their abuse and mistreatment.

Discredit and Destroy the Heirs – Hurt and weaken them any way you can. Can you harm their business? Their career? Spread damaging lies about them? Do it, your financial future is at stake. Destroy them if you can so they can’t fight you.

Involve Organized Crime, Stalking and Hate Groups – Pay criminals to create havoc in the heir’s life, but only do it through intermediaries so it cannot be traced to you. Major life disruptions can be caused by surprisingly minor dirty tricks disguised as life’s bad breaks. Sick, psychotic people enjoy hurting people, getting paid for it is a plus.

STEP THREE: Savor Your Triumph

Enjoy Being Evil – Think about all the fun you will have and all the wonderful things you will do with the target’s money and how much you enjoy hurting the stupid, unsuspecting heirs.
You are so much better, smarter and deserving than they are.
You deserve the money.
The human mind has no firewall. Elderly People Are Weak And Vulnerable.  Heirs are helpless, they don’t know what you are doing until it is too late.
See About Steal an Estate on the upper right hand corner of this page.

=> Update: There is obvious tampering with the judicial process in addition to fraud with my parent’s estates.  Expanded explanations will be posted shortly.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I may well with your choice of "displaced" here although if thiss realtes to heirs being set aside as they have died, then this is perhaps not the correct term. Is a good runner-up:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_apparent
17 hrs
disagree Daryo : interesting reading BUT has nothing to do with the ST - these are "Article of association" of a business entity, not someone's will - totally different beasts ...
19 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : don't know why you included the long spiel. Anyway, don't like "displaced"
26 days
Something went wrong...
-2
10 hrs

evicted beneficiaries

evicted from the company

most likely scenario: the founding members of the company don't want to have heirs of founding members becoming themselves members of the company, so this Art.12 says that if a founding member dies, his/her heirs will be thrown out of the company /evicted (and of course compensated - that being the purpose of this "expertise")

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2017-10-05 13:08:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... if a founding member dies, his/her heirs who inherit the shares and would become entitled to have a say in how the company is run will be thrown out of the company ...

they will inherit the shares, but will be forced to sell them - they will be "evicted from / thrown out of" the company

there might be some nicer way of saying it, but in FR "être évincé" is not particularly nice either... and does literally mean "getting evicted" (in this ST from the company you just inherited!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day22 hrs (2017-10-06 13:28:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

assumed scenario confirmed by the full text of the this Article:


ARTICLE TROISIEME - MUTATION PAR DÉCÈS

Tout ayant droit doit, pour devenir associé, obtenir l'agrément de la collectivité des associés se prononçant par décision extraordinaire hors la présence de ces dévolutaires, les voix attachées aux parts de leur auteur n'étant pas retenues pour le calcul du quorum et de la majorité.

Les ayants-droit doivent justifier de leurs qualités et demander leur agrément s'il y a lieu, par lettre recommandée avec demande d'avis de réception dans un délai 9 de trois mois à compter du décès ou de la disparition de la personnalité morale de l'associé.

Les ayants-droit qui ne deviennent pas associés n'ont droit qu'à la valeur des parts sociales de leur auteur. Cette valeur doit être payée par les nouveaux titulaires des parts, ou par la société elle-même, si celle-ci les a rachetées en vue de leur annulation. Cette valeur est déterminée au jour du décès ou de la disparition de la personnalité morale dans les conditions prévues à l'article 1843-4 du Code civil.

Les frais d'expertise sont supportés moitié par la société, moitié par la succession ou par les ayants-droit évincés, selon le cas.

Les dispositions d’un mandat à effet posthume ne pourront accorder à l’ayantdroit plus de droits qu’il n’en tient en vertu des présentes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 days (2017-10-17 00:05:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

more explicit version:

... that if a founding member dies, shares that are his/her personal property will be inherited [no one can prevent that!] BUT his/her heirs will be thrown out of the company /evicted by being forced to sell these shares - establishing the fair price for these shares being the purpose of this "expertise"
Peer comment(s):

disagree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Sorry, but "eviction" relates to a building. I'd be interested in seeing an EN source where it is used in this context.//The term "evicted" in EN remains erroneous in such contexts.
10 hrs
that corresponds to the FR term used, that is as much "unusual" in French. How do you propose to square that circle? HOW would you say that someone is forced to get out / thrown out of a company?
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : with Nikki
26 days
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

21 hrs
Reference:

Some suggestions: set aside?

For use of "displace": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_apparent

"An heir apparent or heiress apparent is a person who is first in line of succession and cannot be displaced from inheriting by the birth of another person. An heir presumptive, by contrast, is someone who is first in line to inherit a title but who can be displaced by the birth of a more eligible heir."

There are similar hits for "dispossess" although they tend to be historical and describe thrones and titles.

évincer: https://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/evincer-il... Here indicated with a legal meaning as a verb for “to result”, “to end up”.

évincer: ordinary meaning: ousted, distanced, rejected, rebuffed, pushed out, shifted out of the way, set aside, etc.

“ayant-droit évincé” : Council of Europe Legal Dictionary on Google Books : displaced heir

Maybe considering "évincé" as "déshérité and thus allowing "disinherit" to be used might be one way round this? That said, if "évincé" is describing those who have been "évincé" by death, then there is no disinheritance.

Maybe more context would help, maybe not. I would also wonder about the choice of "beneficiary" or "heir".
Peer comments on this reference comment:

disagree Daryo : I'm 99% sure that it's about those who inherited the shares being forced to sell them THAT could be part of "Articles of Association", not decreeing that shares (the private property of the shareholder) cannot be inherited! // Now 100 % sure!
1 hr
Maybe, which does not make "evict" correct in EN, other than property contexts. Further, I, and others too, imagine, do not appreciate heavy print or capitals in comments. Fine for emphasis in body of posts, but otherwise OTT in terms of netiquette.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : I agree completely with your comment above. As for suggestions, well it really depends on having more context but would go with Bridge and Fourth in meantime.
26 days
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search