Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
a structural necessity for sub-groups
English answer:
sub-groups are necessary to maintain the social structure
Added to glossary by
updownK
Jun 7, 2017 11:33
7 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
a structural necessity for sub-groups
English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
"Drug knowledge originated mostly with males because they tend to be more venturesome – an outgrowth of male aggression. You've read your Orange Catholic Bible, thus you know the story of Eve and the apple. Here's an interesting fact about that story: Eve was not the first to pluck and sample the apple. Adam was first and he learned by this to put the blame on Eve. My story tells you something about how our societies find A STRUCTURAL NECESSITY FOR SUB-GROUPS."
--quoted from the SF fiction God Emperor of Dune (link: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=“STRUCTURAL NECESSIT...
Orange Catholic Bible here is an adapted version of our Bible, so it has a difference story about Genesis.
What does A STRUCTURAL NECESSITY FOR SUB-GROUPS mean? Does SUB-GROUP refer to "family" as the structural unit of society? Even so I cannot figure out the relation between the story and the last sentence.
--quoted from the SF fiction God Emperor of Dune (link: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=“STRUCTURAL NECESSIT...
Orange Catholic Bible here is an adapted version of our Bible, so it has a difference story about Genesis.
What does A STRUCTURAL NECESSITY FOR SUB-GROUPS mean? Does SUB-GROUP refer to "family" as the structural unit of society? Even so I cannot figure out the relation between the story and the last sentence.
Responses
+5
12 mins
Selected
sub-groups are necessary to maintain the social structure
My interpretation.
Incidentally, I think that "Orange Catholic Bible" should be seen as a joke. Herbert did set some of his stories in Ireland.
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Note added at 14 mins (2017-06-07 11:48:22 GMT)
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A sub-group is any group within the main society and can be based on gender, family, status or whatever else may be used to divide a society into groups.
Incidentally, I think that "Orange Catholic Bible" should be seen as a joke. Herbert did set some of his stories in Ireland.
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Note added at 14 mins (2017-06-07 11:48:22 GMT)
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A sub-group is any group within the main society and can be based on gender, family, status or whatever else may be used to divide a society into groups.
Note from asker:
Thanks! But still not sure about the relation between SUB-GROUPS and the story. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Charlesp
26 mins
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Thanks Charles
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agree |
Mair A-W (PhD)
34 mins
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Thanks Mair
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Most people here won't get the "Orange Catholic" joke...//I doubt that very much! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order
54 mins
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Thanks Gallagy. I think most British, Irish and Irish American people will get it.
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agree |
JohnMcDove
: Generally speaking I agree with this too. (We are missing a lot of context, at least in my case, but that is the general idea.)
12 hrs
|
Thanks John
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agree |
Yasutomo Kanazawa
17 hrs
|
Thanks Yasutomo
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you! I think your answer is most accurate."
+3
13 mins
inherent need for lower-status groups (for scapegoating)
This is how I read this in the context of the quoted paragraph.
Societies need sub-groups -- I think it means groups of lower status here, not just smaller groups -- in order to apportion blame/scapegoat, and this need is structural, ie inherent to the nature of (human?) societies.
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Note added at 48 mins (2017-06-07 12:21:43 GMT)
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I think it CAN also just mean sub-groups as such (smaller groups within larger groups) not necessarily lower-status ones, though the Adam/Eve example suggests this specific interpretation. Hard to say without access to more of the text.
Definitely not family units, though.
Societies need sub-groups -- I think it means groups of lower status here, not just smaller groups -- in order to apportion blame/scapegoat, and this need is structural, ie inherent to the nature of (human?) societies.
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Note added at 48 mins (2017-06-07 12:21:43 GMT)
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I think it CAN also just mean sub-groups as such (smaller groups within larger groups) not necessarily lower-status ones, though the Adam/Eve example suggests this specific interpretation. Hard to say without access to more of the text.
Definitely not family units, though.
Note from asker:
Thanks! I will think over it. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Charlesp
25 mins
|
neutral |
philgoddard
: I think this is more likely, but I'd like to see the full context.
2 hrs
|
agree |
JohnMcDove
: I tend to agree with this idea. :-)
12 hrs
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agree |
Yasutomo Kanazawa
17 hrs
|
+1
12 hrs
an underlying requisite for [the existence of] classes of a subordinated nature
I am giving you an "orthopaedic" translation (meaning, not necessarily in "good" or "natural" English), nonetheless, it may help you to get the idea. (Providing I got it right, without further context!)
sub-
1.2 Of a smaller size; of a subordinate nature.
‘subculture’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sub-
Here is a good and simple explanation for the "Orange Catholic Bible"
http://www.shmoop.com/dune/orange-catholic-bible-symbol.html
In other words, I think he is talking about a basic need, to have a "group of people", call it "class", "sub-" "subordinated" to you, so you can "blame" on them.
The "old" saying that "sh*t rolls downhill" may be somewhat applicable here.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shit rolls do...
Good luck!
sub-
1.2 Of a smaller size; of a subordinate nature.
‘subculture’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sub-
Here is a good and simple explanation for the "Orange Catholic Bible"
http://www.shmoop.com/dune/orange-catholic-bible-symbol.html
In other words, I think he is talking about a basic need, to have a "group of people", call it "class", "sub-" "subordinated" to you, so you can "blame" on them.
The "old" saying that "sh*t rolls downhill" may be somewhat applicable here.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shit rolls do...
Good luck!
Note from asker:
Thanks! I will think over the uphill/downhill group pattern. And I seem got the joking point mentioned by Finch in your second link. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
acetran
12 mins
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Thank you very much, Acetran. :-)
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neutral |
B D Finch
: There is a sociological difference between a class and a sub-group. The explanation in your 2nd reference dates "Orange" from the 1960s, while it actually dates from William of Orange, some 300 years earlier.//I charge for sociology and history lessons!
8 hrs
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Thank you! Which is? --(What is the "difference"?) / As for the "Orange Bible", I doubt the ST refers to William of Orange 300 years earlier. If so, how?
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Discussion
We hope the discussion is useful to UpdownK. As Nancy Willard said, or wrote, "Sometimes questions are more important than answers".
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sub-
On the other hand, I recognize I will have to study up on the Duke of Lemonade, as nobody covered the subject before or after the LOGSE (Spanish Educational Law)! ;-)
https://www.thoughtco.com › ... › Social Sciences › Sociology › Key Concepts
Definition: A subgroup is a collection of people who identify themselves as members of a group that is also part of a larger social system to which they belong.
http://sociologydictionary.org/subgroup/
subgroup
(noun) “[A] distinct and often subordinate group within a group” (Princeton University 2010).
http://www.ldoceonline.com/Sociology-topic/subgroup
sub‧group /ˈsʌbɡruːp/ noun [countable] a separate, smaller, and sometimes less important part of a group
The more of these questions I see, the more I think Herbert is good at telling stories, but not at writing English.