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add in their two cents
Feb 1, 2017 09:54
7 yrs ago
English term

working estate

English to Chinese Marketing Tourism & Travel
‘The castle is set amidst a 10,000 acre working estate.’ 我理解working estate是指这是一个出产农/畜/林产品的田庄。‘这座城堡坐落在占地10，000英亩的经营良好的田庄之间。’ 一时找不到更恰当更通顺的措辞。
Proposed translations (Chinese)
4 经营的田庄
5 庄园
3 现营庄园

Discussion

jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
You still miss the point. When I said no difference, I mean the definitive article "the" can also be used in a general way as non-definitive. But that has nothing to do with the English sentence posted in this discussion.
Of course, if the original text had talked about the estate in the previous context, it should say"...amidst THE 10,000 acre working estate." As I said, this is apparently a self-referring sentence of introduction.
jyuan_us Feb 3, 2017:
a vs the So, were you implying that "The castle is set amidst a 10,000 acre working estate" is exactly the same as "The castle is set amidst the 10,000 acre working estate"?
jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
那是定冠词的界定用法， 如果您去查看任何文法专书都会再进一步解释 在非界定的状况下， 定冠词不表任何特定意义。E.g. It is just a program in "the" TV.
基本上，这里有关城堡的英文是一自我指涉的句子，旨在介绍：E.g. I am "a" student in a private school
jyuan_us Feb 3, 2017:
可惜，您的 in the park and in a park 並非“意思並無區別”， 而是相去甚遠。而且“定冠词”並無“非界定性”惯用法。“定冠词”是用來限定意思的。
jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
I thought I have already explained that in the posted discussion.
jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
您仍未完全了解定冠词和不定冠词的非界定性惯用法，
The building is located in the park 和 The building is located in a park 并无差别。
jyuan_us Feb 3, 2017:
@ Jianhong I meant to ask Jarv how he would compare this working estate with his reasoning of "差别就像a working pill 和 a sleeping pill之间".
jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
An estate with its mills or workshops still working ( to produce)
jyuan_us Feb 3, 2017:
It is "a 10,000 acre working estate" 不定冠詞，表示不確定是誰的，也不知道誰在經營，表示“一個”而已。真看不出“其”是指代誰的。
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 3, 2017:
Neither. "An estate that is being worked on (to produce profits)"
jyuan_us Feb 3, 2017:
@ Jarv95888 Let me ask you this question: Does "a working estate" mean "an estate that works" or "an estate that is used for working"?
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 3, 2017:
同意jarv说的，不过“现营” 一词不太常用吧
jarv95888 Feb 3, 2017:
虽然此问题已关闭，不过还是借此平台提出一点讨论意见。
首先是working estate的直译问题，若单单就“经营“来思考“经营性田庄“，似乎并没有太大意义因为田庄本来就是有人在经营。就如同在说“营业性饭店“一样并无任何实质意义， 因为饭店本来就是营业用的。再回到working estate来讲，，现在分词working在此是表状态（descriptive)不是界定性质功用（limiting)。差别就像a working pill 和 a sleeping pill之间。("a pill that works" vs "a pill used for sleeping") 若要强调working的话，“现营“才是正确的。
另外，如果你认为此句没点明该estate是否为该城堡单位所经营，那是对整个句子仍未理解。就好像我如果说明“我现在正坐在30平方呎的（生活性）家中”，而有人却问我是谁的家中。文句很明确是“a...working estate“ 单数，表示城堡是在这estate当中。如果上网去查一下，不难看到许多欧洲观光性庄园，其周边都有自己的工作农场或果园等等，而且本身就是用XXEstate命名。（或许本文也是其中之一）。所以城堡和estate二者是属于同一单位。
既然表示正在经营，而且又不是别人经营的，“在其经营的...田庄当中“应没什么不妥。
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 3, 2017:
综合各位建议，最终选择译为“这座城堡座落在10,000英亩经营性田庄之中。”
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 2, 2017:
“田庄”和“庄园”分别本来不大，只是我全文已经用“庄园”指带大片花园的豪华宅邸了，所以在指这外围的大片田地山林等就用“田庄”。再次感谢各位的建议！
jyuan_us Feb 2, 2017:
I think a working estate is just a type of estate and the source doesn't have the meaning of who is running it. In the selected answer "which he or she was working in /was running" was added, which was not in the source sentence. And it is doubtful to use 田庄 to translate "estate" too.
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 2, 2017:
Please submit your answer instead of adding discussion entries here. This way I can reward the person who supplied the most helpful answer. Thanks
jarv95888 Feb 2, 2017:
試译： 这座城堡座落在其经营的10,000英亩田庄当中。
jarv95888 Feb 1, 2017:
赞成jyun：working是表示estate的属性⋯ 不过就文法來说，working 是現在分詞，不是動名詞。現在分詞是做修饰語，表示被修饰詞的功能、性質或状態。
动名词則是当作名词使用，不是修饰词。
原先的悥见是依Jane的译文提出。若以＂座落在…庄园之间＂，则会误解成该城堡是衆多庄园之一。这里的amidst 是in the middle of 的意思，不是among的意思。
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 1, 2017:
我也是这样想的，才觉得“经营良好的”似乎自己加多了意思，“经营性的”才准确
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 1, 2017:
多谢补充解释 谢谢你jyuan，这下明白多了。Can you post an answer? I'd like to select yours as most helpful
jyuan_us Feb 1, 2017:
working是动名词，而不是现在分词 表示estate的属性，意思是经营性的/生产性的庄园，用于生产经营的庄园
jyuan_us Feb 1, 2017:
This is what a working estate looks like http://www.glenarmcastle.com/about-the-estate
JaneWJH (asker) Feb 1, 2017:
谢谢 同意你的分析
jarv95888 Feb 1, 2017:
田庄 I think your translation is better.
"庄园" 本身就是有自己主体建筑的田庄，而该城堡是坐落在自己经营的田庄里。
The difference is between
“amidst a 10,000 acre working estate” and “amidst a 10,000 acre of working estates."
This is just my humble opinion.

Proposed translations

22 hrs
Selected

经营的田庄

这座城堡座落在其经营的10,000英亩田庄当中。
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
7 mins

庄园


庄园 应无问题吧

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Note added at 12 hrs (2017-02-01 22:42:54 GMT)
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生产性庄园


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Note added at 12 hrs (2017-02-01 22:53:58 GMT)
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这座城堡坐落在一个占地10，000英亩的经营性庄园之内

a 在此语境中具体翻译出来，似乎更好；“之间” 会被有些人读为between， 因此建议改为之内。
Note from asker:
主要是想译出“working”一词
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16 hrs

现营庄园

同意译成庄园， 如果非要译，可作现营庄园

供参考
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