Aug 30, 2016 23:35
8 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

avoir été à la cour

French to English Social Sciences General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters medical, psychology
I'm translating a psychiatry report, and I have no idea what "à la cour" means in the following sentence: "Elle me rapporte [...] avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans". I know "à la cour" can mean "at court" or "at the playground", but for me, neither makes sense in the context. Perhaps it's a typo and it should be "à la cœur" instead?

Here's the entire paragraph:

Ses parents se seraient séparés alors qu’elle avait 3 ans. Elle me rapporte une discorde constante et avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans. Elle me décrira alors une certaine instabilité émotive chez ses parents, et un manque de validation émotive; elle me dira s’être en quelque sorte coupée de ses émotions et présente même des symptômes de dissociation durant plusieurs périodes de 9 à 16 ans. Tel que mentionné ci-haut, elle présente des traits de personnalité limites caractéristiques, et ce s’étant développés au courant de l’adolescence.
Change log

Aug 31, 2016 08:22: writeaway changed "Field" from "Medical" to "Social Sciences" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "medical, psychology"

Discussion

Paul Jones (asker) Aug 31, 2016:
Sorry to add this relevant information now, but I just discovered that the patient has never committed any crimes. The text says, "Elle peut se mettre facilement en colère et durant l’adolescence briser des objets. Il n’y a toutefois pas d’antécédents criminels."

And the text is from Quebec, by the way. Thanks for all your help. I think in the end I'll go with "in and out of court" or "spent a lot of time in court".
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Aug 31, 2016:
traits de personnalité limite Note that in French psychology, which has a great many differences with the UK approach, the niotion of "état limite" which traditionally lies some way between psychoosis and nevrosis. Today's UK and FR terminology describes that as "borderline personality". HOWEVER, and this is extremely important, in the case of children and adolescents, the French at least, never ever use "état limite" for a child or an adolescent. An "état is fixed; it is a state. Your original respects the rule of thumb when describing children and adolescents as having Children and adolesccents are described as having "traits de personnalité". The idea is that from a psychological/psychiatric point of view, a young person's situation has not stabalized and so cannot be described as having a particular "state" but rather as having particular "traits."
See ref. post to come...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Aug 31, 2016:
No doubt in my mind about meaning! Context. This point is being raised within the context of an exchange about her parents constantly disagreeing etc. and about events between the ages of 9 to 16. Those events led to her at least having the impression that she was in and out of court all the time.

No mention or implication that she was arrested during that time.
Jennifer White Aug 31, 2016:
The way I see it.... I don't think she was called into court herself. The text doesn't say that - merely that she was IN court - maybe because of the "discorde constante" of her parents. Agree with JL01, but the syntax is correct.
writeaway Aug 31, 2016:
@Asker Is there any indication in your text as to 'why' she in court so often?
M. El Kadimi Aug 31, 2016:
This is a psychiatry report and if your read the paragraph through, you will see it's all about the girl. Also, tou should not be surprised about being arrested at age 9 in France. About a year ago, the French police arrested an eight-year old and even took him to the station for questioning. You should also not be too surprised for juvenile delinquents to be arrested and presented to a juvenile court/judge!
But I do I agree that it might mean that she was "subpoenaed" to testify regarding her parents. After all, we are just trying to help the asker!
Jean Lachaud Aug 31, 2016:
The only logic there may (may, i.e. maybe) be between "discorde constante" and a reference to going to court in the same sentence would possibly be that the person had to testify in court in divorce/parental rights proceedings. And that is stretching it.

Come on! Being arrested at 9 years old?

In what country was this text produced to account for the "été à la cour" syntax?
Sheri P Aug 31, 2016:
I know that, but Asker thought it might have been a typo for cœur. That's what he wrote in his question.
M. El Kadimi Aug 31, 2016:
Actually, it's "cour" and not "cœur "
Sheri P Aug 31, 2016:
cœur is a masculine noun :-)

Proposed translations

+6
8 hrs
French term (edited): avoir été à la cour de 9 jusqu'à 16 ans
Selected

was in and out of court between the ages of 9 and 16

I've expressed my suggestion in an extended section of the phrase.
No mention is being made of any arrest. It is about her having been in and out of court, or at least of having had that impression, during the span of years referred to.
It is in a section of the report where the patient describes her parents as being/having been in constant disagreement.
I think it important to say no more than that.

I think it may even be an overtranslation to say she was called to court or called to appear. That is not what is said. The information is simply that from 9 to 16 she was in and out of court. No more, no less.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2016-08-31 08:20:14 GMT)
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The only slightly unusual thing about the phrase is the choice of the term "cour" rather than "tribunal" which one might normally expect. Another familiar way of expressing it would have been to say "devant les juges". That would be an expression used by older individuals and in situations where they are called to appear for one reason or another. No, here, this is a younger individual, or an adult using very straightforward vocabulary describing the fact that she spent a lot of time in court from 9-16 y.o.

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Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:43:55 GMT)
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Ah, can't make a reference post so here's an extract from a recently purchased book, on an extra point, the notion of "état limite", in reference to my note is the Discussion section.

Extract from the intro of Troubles de la personnalité borderline à l'adolescence by mutliple authors, under the aegis of Maurice CORCOS, Alexandra PHAM-SCOTTEZ and Mario SPERANZA. Ed. DUNOD, 2014.

Extract Introduction, p.1.:

"A l'heure où le terme "borderline" intègre l'édition 2013 di dictionnaire Le Robert, les recherches menées au sein deu Réseau Européen sur les troubles de la personnalité borderline (EURNET-BPD) que nous présentons dans ce livre ont été l'occasion de questionner la pertinence des termes "limite" et "borderline", et surtout de leur inter-interchangeabilité clinique et théorique. ces deux termes, dont la co-existence est une spécificité française, reflètent la double origine du concept, les psychanalystes utilisant initialement le terme "limite" et les autres cliniciens celui de "borderline". Cependant, ces deux termes sont devenus de plus en plus interchangeables en France, et sont aujourd'hui le plus souvent utilisés indifféremment ("limite" venant souvent représenter la traduction française de "borderline"). La clinique du Réseau Borderline nous invite à remettre en question cette interchangeabilité, et peut être à justifier l'arrivée officielle du terme anglo-saxon nouveau venu dans la laangue française."

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Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:48:57 GMT)
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The titel of the 1st chapter "Adolescents limites : Être ou ne pas être hors de soi..." is loaded with meaning for anyone with a French psychology degree, not least for the fact that it is written by Corcos.

This is extra info above and beyond what you have asked for in this questio here. I'm simply raising the point as it is extemely important for your translation. If you havenot studied French psychology then it is easy to overlook its fundamental significance in the context of what you are translating. In that, I refer to the notions of "traits de personnalité" , essential when referring to adolescents ; and also to the notion of "personnalité limite", again significant of itslef and all the more so within the context of young people.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2016-08-31 11:20:13 GMT)
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This really is a matter of context again. the child may have been called in on occasion as a witness; but we don't know that for sure. Nothing in the source text suggests she was called as a party (i.e. defendant) in any way. This suggestion, and other possible ones too of course, should leave interpretation open, as in the French source text : called in as a witness and/or simply being there accompanying her parents. Being with the Juge aux affaires familiales, children can be asked for their opinion in a number of situations but care needs to be taken here. it would be a serious translation mistake to make if one were to suggest that this person had been in/out of court as an offender. Even if it were the case, but it is not at all suggested by the original.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2016-08-31 20:12:44 GMT)
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Final word on this one : looking back at the French source text, the person simply reports "having been in court". She does not say why. We cannot assume anything about why she was there, except that there was some legal reason. We do know however that she did not remain in court for the 7 years between the age of 9 and 16 (!), which means she reports having been in and out of court during that period.
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : yes, no more complicated than this. it's usually best to stick with the source text and not included presumptions or over-translate
2 mins
agree Rachel Fell
43 mins
agree Victoria Britten
57 mins
agree Jennifer White : yes, and see my entry in the D box
1 hr
Yes, the "avoir été" is a usage of "être" as a one-size-fits-all type solution where another verb wld be expected, often to replace "aller" or something similar.
agree David Hayes
4 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : I don't agree that this is clear but think it implies being involved in some sort of case
6 hrs
Certainly, o/wise they wld not be in court. The point is, that the person does not say at this point why, but just reports "having been in court".
agree AllegroTrans
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-3
15 mins

Having been at court/arrested at an early age.

Your guess appears to be correct. People with psychiatric disorders get into delinquency at an early stage, and therefore, may do things that will end them in court.
Let's wait for more suggestions

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Note added at 18 mins (2016-08-30 23:53:44 GMT)
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Or "appeared before a judge"
Peer comment(s):

disagree Jean Lachaud : No. Look at the original sentence "à la cour de l'âge de 9 and jusqu'à 16 ans." This interpretation does not work.
1 hr
Not really, it might mean "on several occasions from age 9 to age 16"
neutral Jennifer White : text doesn't say she was arrested
7 hrs
disagree writeaway : arrested is over-translation/guesswork. Not in the actual text
8 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : over-translation; nothing here about being arrested, these may have been care proceedings
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
29 mins

was regularly called into court/had to appear in court

Was what is called "a repeat juvenile offender".

Hope you find this helpful.

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Note added at 30 mins (2016-08-31 00:05:39 GMT)
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"had to appear in court regularly"
Peer comment(s):

agree Antoinette S
1 hr
Merci, Antoinette.
agree Yolanda Broad
2 hrs
Merci, Yolanda.
neutral writeaway : regularly in and out of court. nothing in the source text indicates she was a juvenile offender. /with her parents? was she placed in care? Is it family court or criminal court? You are putting your own spin on this without knowing the facts
8 hrs
In all likelihood she was a repeat offender. What other reason would a child have for being hauled into court all the time? Not to mention, people often break the law because of psychiatric issues. One hears about it almost everyday in the news.
neutral Jennifer White : text doesn't say that she was called to court or had to appear
9 hrs
People, like this child apparently, are ordered to appear in court.
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Appearing in court already suggests the person was called and applies to parties and witnesses. There is strictly no indication she was a party, altho' in context, may have been a witness, but no indic. either. A conservative solution is required.
11 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : Well we simply don't know if these were juvenile offender hearings; they may for example have been care proceedings initiated by the Social Services;
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs
French term (edited): avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans

(had) spent a lot of time in court between the ages of 9 and 16

I think the answer has to be vague. We don't know exactly what the child was doing in court but presumably it was to do with her parents' disagreements as these caused her distress "Elle me rapporte une discorde constante et avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans. Elle me décrira alors une certaine instabilité émotive chez ses parents..."

So, I think it best to stay well away from anything that implies she was arrested
and "in and out of court" suggests that she was "up in court", at least in my view.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2016-08-31 12:27:38 GMT)
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"in and out of court" definitely implies being involved in some other sort of case
https://www.google.ie/search?q="was in and out of court" mea...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Yes, it has to be vague, non committal (haha). it is clear from the context tho' that there is no tongue-in-cheek meaning. Context makes it clear.//What I mean is that the context is clear that all she reports is having been in court, no more, no less.
2 hrs
1st meaning that comes to me for "in and out of court" is being personally involved in a case...The child could be called as a witness or to help decide on her custody or just be present. Context is NOT clear so we shouldn't make assumptions
Something went wrong...
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