This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
May 2, 2016 08:35
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term
niño en muñeco de goma
Spanish to English
Medical
Medical (general)
chikungunya virus
I have tried all kinds of combinations with bounce, rubber, bobble, rebound, and can't come up with anything that checks out or seems appropriate.
El diagnóstico clínico de los menores de 1 año de edad es más problemático. No obstante, aunando los signos al nexo epidemiológico, puede lograrse una aproximación al diagnóstico con base en ciertas manifestaciones. Los niños afectados son irritables y no presentan gran movilidad; por el contrario, cuando se les mueve se tornan más irritables y vuelven a su posición original. Este signo se ha descrito como **“niño en muñeco de goma”**. Los pacientes de esta edad también presentan edema periarticular y, con menor frecuencia, lesiones cutáneas tipo
El diagnóstico clínico de los menores de 1 año de edad es más problemático. No obstante, aunando los signos al nexo epidemiológico, puede lograrse una aproximación al diagnóstico con base en ciertas manifestaciones. Los niños afectados son irritables y no presentan gran movilidad; por el contrario, cuando se les mueve se tornan más irritables y vuelven a su posición original. Este signo se ha descrito como **“niño en muñeco de goma”**. Los pacientes de esta edad también presentan edema periarticular y, con menor frecuencia, lesiones cutáneas tipo
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
26 mins
"smart metal"
I think "finding" an English equivalent is a mistake in this case and would opt for a fuller description, but if you must then I think you need to focus on the symptom and not the words used to describe it in Spanish. Similar terms in English (such as "rubber man syndrome") suggest greater flexibility, when in Spanish the description coined by doctors is used to indicate the child's tendency to return to the position it was in before. In this sense I think the idea of smart metal would best communicate the idea of the symptom to readers.
If "smart metals" may not be sufficiently well known to the audience, I would still opt for something focusing on the meaning of the symptom rather than the Spanish description.
If "smart metals" may not be sufficiently well known to the audience, I would still opt for something focusing on the meaning of the symptom rather than the Spanish description.
Example sentence:
The child's symptom has been described as the children "behaving like smart metals".
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
neilmac
: You said it. "Smart metals" will likely be too recondite for most audiences. I'd look for native English descriptions of the symptoms (if I wasn't already up to my ears)...
1 hr
|
+2
2 hrs
"child as rubber doll"
Despite the very valid comments Andrew makes in his suggestion, I think we have to resign ourselves to using some sort of "rubber doll" phrase/metaphor. Note that it appears in quotation marks in the original anyway...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Andrew Campbell
: I still think "rubber" would create more problems than it solves, but if we must I think "dummy" might work better than "doll" here.
32 mins
|
agree |
philgoddard
: Rubber-doll syndrome would work.
1 hr
|
agree |
MollyRose
: Agree that "rubber doll syndrome" sounds more natural and conveys the meaning.
1 day 12 hrs
|
2 hrs
"rubber kid" (muñeco de goma)
- Edema of hands and feet, erythema and palmoplantar swelling
-Widespread pain, predominantly in extremities
- Hyperalgesia and
irritability, "rubber kid“ (“muñeco de goma”)
1_+R+ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV+dissemination.pdf page 35.
Dominican Republic, 2014-Source: V. Gomez
www.invs.sante.fr/.../1_ R ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV dissemination....
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:39:28 GMT)
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Alternative address due to failure to access document using address supplied. Document is identified as:
[PDF]Chikungunya virus (CHIKV) dissemination in the Americas ...
www.invs.sante.fr/.../1_ R ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV dissemination....
Dec 6, 2013 - Challenges for monitoring the spread and impact: a. ... Spread of Chikungunya virus, 2004-2013. Adapted from: Tsetsarkin K and al. Chikungunya virus evolution: Evolution and genetic determinants of ... (“muñeco de goma”).
https://www.google.ca/?client=safari#channel=mac_bm&q= muñec...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:40:52 GMT)
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-Panama Health Organization-
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:42:34 GMT)
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PANAM HEALTH ORGANIZATION
-Widespread pain, predominantly in extremities
- Hyperalgesia and
irritability, "rubber kid“ (“muñeco de goma”)
1_+R+ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV+dissemination.pdf page 35.
Dominican Republic, 2014-Source: V. Gomez
www.invs.sante.fr/.../1_ R ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV dissemination....
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:39:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternative address due to failure to access document using address supplied. Document is identified as:
[PDF]Chikungunya virus (CHIKV) dissemination in the Americas ...
www.invs.sante.fr/.../1_ R ANDRAGHETTI_CHIKV dissemination....
Dec 6, 2013 - Challenges for monitoring the spread and impact: a. ... Spread of Chikungunya virus, 2004-2013. Adapted from: Tsetsarkin K and al. Chikungunya virus evolution: Evolution and genetic determinants of ... (“muñeco de goma”).
https://www.google.ca/?client=safari#channel=mac_bm&q= muñec...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:40:52 GMT)
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-Panama Health Organization-
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-02 11:42:34 GMT)
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PANAM HEALTH ORGANIZATION
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
philgoddard
: Muñeco is doll, and you can't use the colloquial "kid" in this context.
16 mins
|
I can't change that. It is reported as the PANAM ORGANIZATION doctors had it. It is a bit weird to use Kid, but There you have it. Thanks anyway for your commentary.
|
4 hrs
roly-poly toy (effect)
I hit on this through the following comments on the word "porfiado" in Venezuela:
"porfiado
muñeco de goma
El "porfiado" es un muñeco hecho de goma.
Se le llama así porque no se mantiene en posición horizontal y si se lo coloca en esa posición vuelve a la vertical y por eso le dicen que es "porfiado".
la base es una sección esférica o hemisférica, permite un movimiento oscilante, se le coloca un peso grande en la base, lo mas bajo posible, al moverlo de la vertical, por efecto del bajo centro de gravedad o de masa, tiene la tendencia a oscilar como un péndulo invertido y volver a su posición vertical, que es la de mayor estabilidad o su "posición de equilibrio"."
http://www.tubabel.com/definicion/60879-porfiado
It suddenly came to me on reading this that "muñeco de goma" must be referring to this. It's nothing to do with being flexible; it means that the child behaves like one of these toys that "vuelven a su posición original" if you try to move them. (The explanation, of course, is that the virus causes the poor things terrible pain and they can't bear to be moved.)
So it's talking about the kind of toy called a tentetieso or porfiado in Spanish and a roly-poly doll, among other things, in English (according to Wikipedia; I've never known what they were called):
"A roly-poly toy, round-bottomed doll, tilting doll, tumbler or wobbly man is a toy that rights itself when pushed over."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roly-poly_toy
"Un tentetieso, tentempié, siempretieso (en Andalucía), porfiado, mono porfiado o muñeco porfiado es un muñeco con la base semiesférica que actúa de contrapeso de modo que tras golpearlo siempre vuelve a la posición inicial."
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentetieso
I don't know whether it ought to be called a syndrome, which is a specific medical phenomenon. It's more a description of a symptom. Maybe "roly-poly toy effect" or "the child being like a roly-poly toy". Or of course one of the other names this toy can have (though "wobbly man" doesn't seem suitable for this context).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-05-02 13:09:16 GMT)
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"Roly-poly toy", if you go for that, or "tilting doll" or whatever, had better go in quotation marks, I think.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-05-02 13:12:23 GMT)
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The pain is particularly bad in the joints, I gather. In that situation it makes sense the child is going to adopt the default position that minimizes the pain, resist being moved from it and return to it as soon as possible.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-05-02 14:37:38 GMT)
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I didn't really notice at first that it says "a su posición inicial", not "a su forma inicial". The image is not of a doll that returns to its initial shape if you bend, stretch or twist it, but of one that returns to its original position if you move it.
"porfiado
muñeco de goma
El "porfiado" es un muñeco hecho de goma.
Se le llama así porque no se mantiene en posición horizontal y si se lo coloca en esa posición vuelve a la vertical y por eso le dicen que es "porfiado".
la base es una sección esférica o hemisférica, permite un movimiento oscilante, se le coloca un peso grande en la base, lo mas bajo posible, al moverlo de la vertical, por efecto del bajo centro de gravedad o de masa, tiene la tendencia a oscilar como un péndulo invertido y volver a su posición vertical, que es la de mayor estabilidad o su "posición de equilibrio"."
http://www.tubabel.com/definicion/60879-porfiado
It suddenly came to me on reading this that "muñeco de goma" must be referring to this. It's nothing to do with being flexible; it means that the child behaves like one of these toys that "vuelven a su posición original" if you try to move them. (The explanation, of course, is that the virus causes the poor things terrible pain and they can't bear to be moved.)
So it's talking about the kind of toy called a tentetieso or porfiado in Spanish and a roly-poly doll, among other things, in English (according to Wikipedia; I've never known what they were called):
"A roly-poly toy, round-bottomed doll, tilting doll, tumbler or wobbly man is a toy that rights itself when pushed over."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roly-poly_toy
"Un tentetieso, tentempié, siempretieso (en Andalucía), porfiado, mono porfiado o muñeco porfiado es un muñeco con la base semiesférica que actúa de contrapeso de modo que tras golpearlo siempre vuelve a la posición inicial."
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentetieso
I don't know whether it ought to be called a syndrome, which is a specific medical phenomenon. It's more a description of a symptom. Maybe "roly-poly toy effect" or "the child being like a roly-poly toy". Or of course one of the other names this toy can have (though "wobbly man" doesn't seem suitable for this context).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-05-02 13:09:16 GMT)
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"Roly-poly toy", if you go for that, or "tilting doll" or whatever, had better go in quotation marks, I think.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-05-02 13:12:23 GMT)
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The pain is particularly bad in the joints, I gather. In that situation it makes sense the child is going to adopt the default position that minimizes the pain, resist being moved from it and return to it as soon as possible.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-05-02 14:37:38 GMT)
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I didn't really notice at first that it says "a su posición inicial", not "a su forma inicial". The image is not of a doll that returns to its initial shape if you bend, stretch or twist it, but of one that returns to its original position if you move it.
20 hrs
symptom of plastic baby/collodial baby
I am no expert on this but I think it refers to children born with collodial symptoms which include skin looking like rubber/plastic, they have limited mobility and when touched they cry a lot. Suggest you google term "plastic baby/collodial baby.
Discussion
1. It doesn't move by itself
2. If moved, it will return to its fixed position.
Now, if one compares the baby reasons for moving we have:
1. the baby will not move by itself because he knows it is an action that gives him bothersome pain.
2. If moved by whoever (mother, doctor, nurse) he/she will cry and will stop when he/she is returned to an unmoved position.
So in general terms, the comparison is drawn and everybody will understand what is meant by the term. There is no other reference than the PANAM HEALTH ORGANIZATION to give credit to the term asked. At the same time, no all slide presentations can be qualified as being less serious. The Organization is involved in Health problems around the world, and it deals with those in no other way than using terms that will be understood and accepted by all and sundry.
https://books.google.es/books?id=UwVYtrmBIEYC&pg=PT401&lpg=P...
In other words, someone like a "porfiado", that gets pushed around and comes back for more.
2. The document I'm translating is more serious. It's a technical handbook for use by physicians. It will be widely distributed.
http://www.paho.org/dor/images/stories/archivos/chikungunya/...
As to whether I'm right about what kind of "muñeco de goma" they mean, well obviously a general image search will produce pictures of rubber toys. It doesn't usually mean a "porfiado", and to my knowledge it never does in Spain, for example. But it does, or can, in certain Latin American countries. And it fits the returning-to-equilibrium phenomenon. But they could just mean a static figure in a fixed posture, which is actually what many rubber figures are (i.e. not actually flexible at all).
However, more importantly is does not match the Chikungunya virus symptoms, which have nothing to do with with the inner ear. By a long shot the fever or inflammation might induce labyrinthitis (though there is nothing in the literature) but even then it would not cause the child to return to an upright position, but more likely the opposite. While they say under 1 y.o., the idea is to diagnose babies whose symptoms are hard to read, so we can assume the younger ones (infants usually do not sit up until 5-7 months old).
I agree with you that the metaphor in Spanish is a poor one, but it is not the first time I have found doctors' attempts to describe a symptom wanting.
I think focusing on the "muñeco de goma" is the wrong approach. The idea is to make clear to those viewing the presentation what the symptom is. To this end I believe our disagreement may be very useful in identifying and teasing apart exactly what the described symptom is.
I do not think "elastic" escapes the problems presented by "rubber". Both imply an increased ability to move and lack of rigidity. Instead the central idea is that of the baby to return to a fixed position to avoid the pain in the joints when moved from that position.
The fact it is a slide from a presentation makes it even worse. To me it is clear this is not accepted terminology, but rather a coined term from a small group of doctors trying to express the idea.
If it were me I would either leave it in Spanish or eliminate it from the English version. In a slide any sufficiently short translation would only lead the audience away from the idea of the symptom they are trying to communicate.
My intention was simply to use an expression that reproduces the metaphor used in Spanish.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobble-head_doll_syndrome