Mar 21, 2016 19:36
8 yrs ago
German term
Weltstrom
German to English
Art/Literary
Architecture
Zunaechst beanspruchen und gestalten wir einen Platz im Bewusstsein unseres Adressaten - in einem Bewusstsein, das ueber erstaunliche dedutive, inductive und antizipative Kompetenzen verfuegt, um eine ebenso persoehnliche wie (Gattungskompatible) Welt zu erschaffen, sozusagen einen WELTSTROM)
First and foremost we use and design a space in the consciousness of our audience - in a consciousness that commands incredible deductive, inductive and anticipatory abilities, in order to create a world that is as personal as it is Gattungskompatible), a so called WELTSTROM
I have spent close to an hour on this sentence now, even in Linguee only four example sentences containing the word "Weltstrom" are listed and all of them refer to electricity so clearly not the right context. Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
First and foremost we use and design a space in the consciousness of our audience - in a consciousness that commands incredible deductive, inductive and anticipatory abilities, in order to create a world that is as personal as it is Gattungskompatible), a so called WELTSTROM
I have spent close to an hour on this sentence now, even in Linguee only four example sentences containing the word "Weltstrom" are listed and all of them refer to electricity so clearly not the right context. Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +1 | oceanic flow | Helen Shiner |
3 | divine habitat / ideal world | Paul Cohen |
3 | a river flowing through our world | Lancashireman |
3 | worldmeld/worldwide stream of congruence | David Hollywood |
Proposed translations
+1
2 hrs
Selected
oceanic flow
As per my discussion entries, with thanks to Jung. Also known as the collective unconscious or oceanic consciousness. I suggest 'flow' here, but maybe 'current' would do as well. I would use consciousness but that comes at the start of the sentence so you need to come up with something else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious
Scroll down to the section on The spiritual experience and primary consciousness - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3909994/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious
Scroll down to the section on The spiritual experience and primary consciousness - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3909994/
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Andreas Hild
: That's a reasonable approximation that is well within the spirit of psychoanalysis
11 hrs
|
Thanks, andyhd
|
|
neutral |
Paul Cohen
: Given the author's lengthy explanation, I think it's safe to say that an entire ocean of meaning has been inferred from just one word. ;-)
3 days 20 hrs
|
That's about right; oceanic in its compass ;)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I am still not entirely sure what to use, but since your answer has one agree vote and I have to close the question eventually, I will give you the points :)"
1 hr
divine habitat / ideal world
According to Greek mythology, the Weltstrom (also known as Oceanus) was the ocean-stream in which floated the inhabitable world (the known world).
Here's a source in German:
"Oceanus war mehr als nur ein Gott. Ursprünglich personifizierte er den Weltstrom</b, der nach damaliger Ansicht die Länder der Erde umfloss, später dann einfach das Weltmeer. Dieser urzeitliche Weltstrom ging aus der Vereinigung von Himmel und Erde hervor und war nach Homer und Hesiod der Ursprung aller Götter."
Source: http://www.tcneptun.ch/Text/CArchiv/Neptuns1.htm
The Greeks had a different view of gods and men back in the days when the gods lived among us. So the word "divine" doesn't mean that it's only fit for the gods. Quite the contrary! It's for people, too.
In your text, it might look something like this:
"... to create a world that meets the needs of both the individual and society, a divine habitat of sorts."
or
"... to create a world that serves the needs of both the individual and society, in other words, an ideal world."
Hope that helps.
Paul
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Note added at 1 hr (2016-03-21 20:49:55 GMT)
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Oops. I wanted to make only "Weltstrom" bold. Sorry.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-03-21 21:47:38 GMT)
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Another approach:
"... to create a world that serves the needs of both the individual and society and strikes a deep, universal chord within us."
(this would be a nod to "oceanic consciousness," which may be the most accurate Jungian-inspired translation and is, I think, the deep watery direction that we are headed)
Here's a source in German:
"Oceanus war mehr als nur ein Gott. Ursprünglich personifizierte er den Weltstrom</b, der nach damaliger Ansicht die Länder der Erde umfloss, später dann einfach das Weltmeer. Dieser urzeitliche Weltstrom ging aus der Vereinigung von Himmel und Erde hervor und war nach Homer und Hesiod der Ursprung aller Götter."
Source: http://www.tcneptun.ch/Text/CArchiv/Neptuns1.htm
The Greeks had a different view of gods and men back in the days when the gods lived among us. So the word "divine" doesn't mean that it's only fit for the gods. Quite the contrary! It's for people, too.
In your text, it might look something like this:
"... to create a world that meets the needs of both the individual and society, a divine habitat of sorts."
or
"... to create a world that serves the needs of both the individual and society, in other words, an ideal world."
Hope that helps.
Paul
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-03-21 20:49:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Oops. I wanted to make only "Weltstrom" bold. Sorry.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-03-21 21:47:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Another approach:
"... to create a world that serves the needs of both the individual and society and strikes a deep, universal chord within us."
(this would be a nod to "oceanic consciousness," which may be the most accurate Jungian-inspired translation and is, I think, the deep watery direction that we are headed)
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Andreas Hild
: Hard to see how this could vaguely relate to Gestalt psychology.
12 hrs
|
Well, it turns out that "it is not intended to paraphrase the fascinating but still a bit speculative Jung concept of Archetypic figures/Gestalten/concepts" (to quote the author).
|
|
agree |
Lancashireman
: To get you back up to zero (Hard to see how anyone can consider themselves qualified to upgrade/downgrade contributions on this question)
17 hrs
|
Ha-ha! Said like a gentleman and a scholar. Meanwhile we're still waiting with bated breath for words of wisdom from the author ...
|
2 hrs
a river flowing through our world
I think you need to stick close to the author's original wording and leave the reader to figure out what he/she means.
Here is an example of "a river flowing through our world":
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1914&dat=19920528&id=...
Here is an example of "a river flowing through our world":
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1914&dat=19920528&id=...
7 hrs
worldmeld/worldwide stream of congruence
my first suggestion is obviously a neologism and the second is a workable interpretation including the "Strom" component a wee bit of poetic licence
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Note added at 7 hrs (2016-03-22 03:05:15 GMT)
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borrowed from the psychological concept of congruence: Carl Rogers stated that the personality is like a triangle made up of the real self, the perceived self, and ideal self. According to Rogers, when there is a good fit between all three components, the person has congruence. This is a healthy state of being and helps people continue to progress toward self-actualization.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2016-03-22 03:05:15 GMT)
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borrowed from the psychological concept of congruence: Carl Rogers stated that the personality is like a triangle made up of the real self, the perceived self, and ideal self. According to Rogers, when there is a good fit between all three components, the person has congruence. This is a healthy state of being and helps people continue to progress toward self-actualization.
Discussion
Care to comment, Markus? ;-)
Give the original text (and the author's explanation) to 100 translators and I predict that you might get 100 different versions in English.
It did occur to me that we sometimes think of time as a river and we talk about consciousness as a stream. Stream, current, river, flow ...
And whatever a "Weltstrom" is, the author does compare it to a "Welt" of sorts in his original text. It covers so many aspects ("impressions and sensations, merging with each other, flowing interdependently through our consciousness, our subconscious, our bodies") that it might simply be called a "stream of life".
Hi Markus and all,
with the term WELTSTROM I try to denote the streaming wholeness of interpretations and concepts creating what we call world, based on uncountable perceptions, impressions and sensations, merging with each other, flowing interdependently through our consciousness, our subconscious, our bodies. I used WELTSTROM instead of WELT because the term WELT suggests that we talk about something that is represented in our mind rather as a timeless thing than as a temporal process. But it is the temporal aspect of the world I want to stress. Does that make sense?
It is not intended to paraphrase the fascinating but still a bit speculative Jung concept of Archetypic figures/Gestalten/concepts.
>>>
um eine ebenso persönliche wie gattungskompatible Welt zu erschaffen, sozusagen eine STROMWELT
1. There was a "world" created in the first part of the sentence. World here does not mean a planet but an "existential reality".
2. Weltstrom cannot be the same as "Weltenstrom", so we can rule out some kind of process from one world to another, it's more contained within the one "world". Welt here is more in the meaning of "all-encompassing" or "existential reality".
So we're looking at some kind of far-reaching fluid reality.
I am at a loss what to call it, but there may be some fancy esoteric word for it out there. My reservation is that I don't feel the word bears much significance for the meaning of the entire sentence. It would make good sense without it.