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Vakantiekas (RJV)
Sep 15, 2014 19:33
9 yrs ago
Dutch term

geurherinnering

Dutch to English Social Sciences Anthropology Concentration camp experience
Vanwege haar geurherinnering kon ze niet meer tegen de lucht van koolraap.
(literally: Due to her smell memory she could not stand the smell of turnip.)

The Dutch join two words: geur, meaning odour/smell and: herinnering, meaning memory/recollection, giving a very specific meaning. I know both words, but am not sure of how to put it in English. Any ideas? Would 'smell memory' fit the picture?

I have read some information on internet, such as that in the following link: http://www.spring.org.uk/2014/04/why-smells-evoke-memories-s...

Thank you for reading this!
Evelyn
Proposed translations (English)
3 olfactory remembrance
3 +4 olfactory memory
3 memory associated with the smell of

Discussion

Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
no longer tolerate the smell or the strong negative memory :-)
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
en nog een… ‘The smell of turnips evoked such a strong negative memory that she was no longer able to tolerate it.’
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
Behalve dat jij een opportunistische wending hebt gegeven aan het geheel,

... omdat het 'haar olfactorisch geheugen van het concentratiekamp' triggert. = most peculiar

bevalt deze vertaling me ook niet:

"because of an olfactory memory she could not stand etc"

Het lijkt wel een klinisch rapport.

De anatomie van het gedachteleven.
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
niet fout, gewoon dubbelop "she detests the smell of turnips, because it triggers her olfactory memory of the concentration camp."

is inderdaad een beetje dubbelop

"she detests the smell of turnips, because it triggers her memory of the concentration camp." is beter
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
@Barend: Ik denk zelf dat het in de zin om #2 gaat, en dan is ‘an olfactory memory’ 100% prima. I agreed with Frank's answer (not his discussion entries), which is correct.

‘Olfactory memory’ works fine as a translation of the word ‘geurherrinering’ in the Asker's context.

e.g.: ‘Due to a disturbing olfactory memory, she was no longer able to tolerate the smell of koolraap*.’

<tt>"because of her olfactory memory she could not stand etc" makes no sense"</tt> are your own words (from your Neutral comment)
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
@Michael, you are just opportunistically using my information.

This is how Frank had it:

"she detests the smell of turnips, because it triggers her (olfactory) memory of the concentration camp."

... omdat het 'haar olfactorisch geheugen van het concentratiekamp' triggert.

which makes no sense or is at least most peculiar
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
Wat hier het probleem is, vat je 'geurherinnering' in de gegeven zin op als

1) het geheugen voor geuren --> het olfactorisch geheugen

2) of als een 'geurherinnering' --> 'een herinnering door een geur', een (specifieke) herinnering (die je krijgt) door een (specifieke) geur

Ik denk dat het 2) is.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
Ik herhaal het nog maar eens: een geurherinnering is iets anders dan het olfactorisch geheugen

- een 'geurherinnering' betreft een specifieke herinnering die wordt opgeroepen door een specifieke geur (bv koolraapgeur)
'geurherinnering' betekent 'een herinnering door een geur', dat is een geurherinnering, zie voorbeelden hieronder
It is a specific memory evoked by a specific smell, a specific smell-evoked memory.


- het olfactorisch geheugen is de verzameling van alle 'geurherinneringen', ook alle 'neutrale geurherinneringen'
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
@Barend: "because of her olfactory memory she could not stand etc" (inderdaad fout)

"because of an olfactory memory she could not stand etc" (prima)
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
olfactorisch geheugen :-) geheugen voor geuren :-)

geheugen gaat over het verleden :-)
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
olfactory memory > olfactory: relating to the sense of smell
memory: something remembered from the past

‘Olfactory memory’ can refer to:

– the recollection of odours
– the memories themselves or an aspect of a memory (visual images, auditory images, olfactory sensations and/or bodily sensations)
– the system in the body for remembering these smells (‘one's olfactory memory bank’)
– and probably more

There is nothing wrong with Frank's answer.

e.g. <font size="2" color="blue">‘Due to a disturbing olfactory memory, she was no longer able to tolerate the smell of koolraap*.’</font>

There are of course a thousand other ways to translate this Dutch sentence.

* http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolraap + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutabaga
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 16, 2014:
We kunnen het nergens over hebben als we niet eerst 'geurherinnering' definiëren.

geurherinnering = niet het olfactorisch geheugen

een 'geurherinnering' betreft een specifieke herinnering die wordt opgeroepen door een specifieke geur (bv koolraapgeur)
'geurherinnering' betekent 'een herinnering door een geur', dat is een geurherinnering, zie voorbeelden hieronder
It is a specific memory evoked by a specific smell, a specific smell-evoked memory.

- het olfactorisch geheugen is de verzameling van alle 'geurherinneringen' maar ook alle 'neutrale geurherinneringen'

De mens heeft ook een geheugen voor geuren, het olfactorisch geheugen. Bepaalde geuren kunnen een sterke associatie met de jeugd oproepen. Mogelijk heeft dit ermee te maken dat het reukorgaan fylogenetisch een heel oud vermogen is; de input van de reukzenuwen gaat niet eerst via de thalamus, zoals vrijwel alle andere zintuiglijke waarnemingen.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reukzin

Vanwege haar geurherinnering kon ze niet meer tegen de lucht van koolraap.

Just a general translation to explain the idea:

Because of her - disturbing - memory evoked by the smell of kohlrabi she was no longer able to tolerate this smell.
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
‘system in the body for remembering these smells’ <font size="2" color="blue">Examples of using it to mean: the system in the body for remembering these smells (‘one's olfactory memory bank’):</font>

‘To this day I hold in my olfactory memory the putrid smells of the smoke from the cooking of the rotting vegetable, the stale urine, the smouldering garbage, the pungent burning-rubber smoke, the all-pervasive decay.’ (My people, uprooted – A saga of the Hindus of Eastern Bengal: http://bengalvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/preface-as-preface... )

---
‘Is the line “other familiars” meant to relay a readily conjured scent, easily retrieved from one’s olfactory memory bank or/and does the familiar mean something else entirely?’ (http://goo.gl/oCIvBT )

---
‘Also, totally agree about how amazing our olfactory memory is. The other day I was walking along the river after it rained, and there were wet leaves on the ground, and I just said to Mum "Aaah, smell that! That's autumn in Clumber Park when I was a little girl!" Lovely...’ (http://www.bookinginheels.com/2012/07/review-particular-sadn... )
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
‘the memories themselves’ #3 ‘Next, the survivor was asked whether his/her memories of this episode consisted of visual images, auditory images, olfactory sensations and/or bodily sensations. Similar questions were asked about neutral childhood episodes. For each item, answers were coded as “yes”, “no” or “I don’t know”. ’
[...]
‘If survivors indicated that they did experience flashbacks, they were asked whether flashbacks contained visual images, auditory images, olfactory sensations and/or bodily sensations.’
[...]
‘Table 1 shows the number of participants who reported visual, auditory, olfactory and/or bodily details for both categories of memories. It is not the case that traumatic memories had a stronger sensory loading than neutral memories.’
[...]
‘Participants who experienced flashbacks all felt that they were accurate relivings of the traumatic experience. On the other hand, many of these survivors said that their flashbacks contained no auditory, olfactory and/or bodily details.’ (‘Amnesia, flashbacks, nightmares, and dissociation in aging
concentration camp survivors, Pergamon – Behaviour Research and Therapy 41 (2003) 351–360’: http://goo.gl/UHN7b9 )
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
‘the memories themselves’ #2 ‘The smell of football, onions predominantly, is one overbearing olfactory memory of being a small child at football games. The parade of drunks, like leering, three dimensional Hogarth prints.’ (http://felixlpetty.tumblr.com/post/62169734181 )
---
‘He first noticed it on the plane ride. There was an odor about her and it was becoming more pronounced with each passing hour. It was like the smell of rotting meat. He shook his head vigorously to remove the olfactory memory, but it was still there and stronger than ever.’ (https://www.facebook.com/192912540785867/posts/5977232869714... )
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
‘the memories themselves’ #1 <font size="2" color="blue">Examples of using ‘olfactory memory’ to mean the memories themselves or an aspect of a memory (visual images, auditory images, olfactory sensations and/or bodily sensations):</font>

‘I'll always remember the sinking realization that my adult taste buds had a different sensitivity than my child taste buds when I stocked up on King Vitaman first year of college. And it was awful. It would have been better as packing material. Part of me still wants to give it another chance, blame it on a bad batch, but I don't want to mar that olfactory memory further, as one of the few times as a kid I got to eat sugar cereal at home, when we weren't visiting my Aunt Betty, who would buy the multi-pack cereals, or at church camp, where getting a hold of a box of Sugar Smacks at breakfast was like finding shoes in a Siberian Gulag - which seems somehow more neutral than saying concentration camp.’ (http://radio-weblogs.com/0107406/2003/04/14.html )
Michael Beijer Sep 16, 2014:
‘olfactory memory’ makes perfect sense ‘Olfactory memory’ can refer to:
– the recollection of odours,
– the memories themselves or an aspect of a memory (visual images, auditory images, olfactory sensations and/or bodily sensations)
– the system in the body for remembering these smells (‘one's olfactory memory bank’)
– and probably more

Franks's answer makes perfect sense, and the register is just fine.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 15, 2014:
Just another example: Context a little bit different :-) but just to point out how 'geurherinnering' is normally used.
And I believe it is used here in this way as well.

Creëer een geurherinnering met Scent of a Family
Maandag 04-03-2013 - 5:00 – Geur is onlosmakelijk verbonden met onze herinneringen. Een geur kan je in één keer mee terugnemen naar dat ene moment in je kinderjaren, tijdens die ene mooie reis of eerste date. Annindriya Perfume ...

http://family-matters.linktrailer.nl/creeer-een-geurherinner...
Frank van Thienen (X) Sep 15, 2014:
left out the punchline . . . except that i left out the bit that says she detests the smell of turnips: "she detests the smell of turnips, because it triggers her (olfactory) memory of the concentration camp."
Whether or not to include the term 'olfactory' may depend on the document being translated. Is it a casual essay, or is it a 'scientific paper' in the field mentioned above? The term is indeed not used much in spoken language, but certainly a suitable and very descriptive scientific term.
Tina Vonhof (X) Sep 15, 2014:
Omit olfactory I like Frank's solution but without 'olfactory'.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 15, 2014:
paraphrasing Vanwege haar geurherinnering kon ze niet meer tegen de lucht van koolraap.

Vanwege de herinnering die steevast werd opgeroepen door de lucht/geur van koolraap kon ze die lucht/geur niet (meer) verdragen

Because of the memory invariably unlocked by the smell/scent of ....
katerina turevich Sep 15, 2014:
Olfactory memory works in the context of a concentration camp. That's fine.
I also agree with Jennifer and Michael that it doesn't work here. Perhaps, because what is meant here is a sort of déjà-vu.
I would insert "sensitivity" here

"Sensitivity to smell-induced memories made her abhor turnips"
or something like that
Frank van Thienen (X) Sep 15, 2014:
alternative phrase The turnips are obviously implied in the source text ("Vanwege haar geurherinnering (van koolraap) kon ze niet meer tegen de lucht van koolraap."), but the repetition would not create a good sentence. How about this English translation: "The smell of turnips triggered her olfactory memory of the concentration camp."
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 15, 2014:
smell-evoked memory If you have a look on the internet then you will see that 'geurherinnering' most of the time means 'a specific memory evoked by a specific smell'.
Or shorter a 'geurherinnering' is a 'herinnering door een geur'


een geurherinnering vind ik één van de bijzonderste dingen die je hersenen met je kunnen uithalen. Ik heb het niet vaak, helemaal niet, maar als ik er één heb is het altijd weer zo een openbaring. Vanmorgen had ik er één, ik bewoog met mijn neus over een tas muntthee, en ineens werd ik 22 jaar teruggeslingerd. Naar de studentenpeda waar ik het eerste jaar in Leuven verbleef. Op een gang waar heel wat Chinezen verbleven, en de gekste dingen in de keuken fabriceerden.

http://verstrooid.blogspot.nl/2008/10/geurherinneringen.html
Jennifer Barnett Sep 15, 2014:
Too literal In my experience, one uses 'bad memories/associations' or 'negative memories/associations' for this kind of sensual er, um ... thing.

Proposed translations

18 hrs
Selected

olfactory remembrance

as opposed to 'memory"

"The smells of the impending morning mist was like a blanket of olfactory remembrance.." from www.readelab.com/tag/love

"For those with an olfactory remembrance of films past, Odorama was first used as part of Waters' 1981 black comedy Polyester"

iris, ylang-ylang, honey, Bourbon vetiver, patchouli, musk and cedarwood), and as I review it, a new olfactory remembrance occurred to me." from thescentualist.com/vero-profumo-onda-a-luscious-type-of-leather/

just generally: https://www.google.nl/search?q="olfactory remembrance"&ie=ut...

well, in any case, better than "memory", which is a more abstract concept.


Still, I would consider inserting a completely new word into the sentence:
"because of her sensitivity to olfactory remembrances of the camp, she couldn't stand turniips". In other words, she starts freaking out whenever she smells turnips.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I don't see how this is different to Frank's answer.
6 hrs
it's a different word; more concrete and immediate
neutral writeaway : wow. what next.
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you. Your answer was helpful."
+4
8 mins

olfactory memory

This seems to be the common term for this phenomenon in scientific circles
Example sentence:

"Olfactory memory refers to the recollection of odors."

Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_memory

Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Beijer : e.g. ‘Due to a disturbing olfactory memory, she was no longer able to tolerate the smell of turnip.’
11 mins
Thanks Michael :-)
agree philgoddard
12 mins
Thanks Phil :-)
agree Kitty Brussaard
21 mins
Thanks Kitty
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : "because of her olfactory memory she could not stand etc" makes no sense; every person has an olfactory memory. Also inappropriate register here.
21 mins
Thanks for the comment Barend. Not sure what you mean with 'inappropriate register'
neutral Jennifer Barnett : Is not English as I know it. I should add, as far as usage goes. The term itself is of course correct.
32 mins
Thanks for the comment Jennifer.
agree Textpertise
37 mins
Thanks :-)
Something went wrong...
1 day 32 mins

memory associated with the smell of

Vanwege haar geurherinnering kon ze niet meer tegen de lucht van koolraap.

Because of the memory associated with the smell of kohlrabi she was no longer able to tolerate this smell.

evoked by
unlocked by

We moeten eerst 'geurherinnering' definiëren.

geurherinnering = niet het olfactorisch geheugen

een 'geurherinnering' betreft een specifieke herinnering die wordt opgeroepen door een specifieke geur (bv koolraapgeur)
'geurherinnering' betekent 'een herinnering door een geur', dat is een geurherinnering, zie voorbeelden in de discussiesectie. It is a specific memory evoked by a specific smell, a specific smell-evoked memory.

- het olfactorisch geheugen is de verzameling van alle 'geurherinneringen' maar ook alle 'neutrale geurherinneringen'

De mens heeft ook een geheugen voor geuren, het olfactorisch geheugen. Bepaalde geuren kunnen een sterke associatie met de jeugd oproepen. Mogelijk heeft dit ermee te maken dat het reukorgaan fylogenetisch een heel oud vermogen is; de input van de reukzenuwen gaat niet eerst via de thalamus, zoals vrijwel alle andere zintuiglijke waarnemingen.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reukzin

Wat hier het probleem is, vat je 'geurherinnering' in de gegeven zin op als

1) het geheugen voor geuren --> het olfactorisch geheugen

2) of als een 'geurherinnering' --> 'een herinnering door een geur', een (specifieke) herinnering (die je krijgt) door een (specifieke) geur

Ik denk dat het 2) is.

Zie voorbeelden van 'geurherinnering' en andere overwegingen in de discussiesectie.
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