Deane Goltermann Apr 4, 2014:

Yes, varies for employer (and agreement) and context is always important. Calling an 'afton' 'ledig' rather than 'arbetsfria' (which I see as standard for days off) is perhaps the confusing part here...

Agneta Pallinder Apr 4, 2014:

no more bean counting then Back to Richard's text - I read it to mean that the days when they work 5 hours are a) the day before a "helgdag (röd dag)" and b) the day before a "ledig afton" such as Xmas eve etc, i.e. in that particular case on Dec. 23. But I think you, Deane, read it to mean they work 5 hours on the "ledig afton" - perhaps Richard can clarify from the rest of his text.

Deane Goltermann Apr 4, 2014:

Actually, I think this confirms my point... This law specifies the national minimum number of vacation days and then defines how to count those vacation days. It says nothing about what is or is not a 'public holiday'. Your quote must be read in context, which is identifying how to count vacation days, I'd say. Then see the exceptions that can be negotiated thru collective bargaining in §2a.

Union bean counters have this down to two decimals in terms of work hours and vacation days, and how this impacts pay. When employed working a 9 day schedule that repeated every 9 weeks (some days with scheduled work turned 'work-free' when landing on a weekend), My actual work week (calculated at 36.75 hrs. for the year) varied from 39.xx hrs to 33.xx hrs. Work on Sundays and holidays paid over 2x in 'OB tillägg'. The non-official 'eves' were still 'work days' but generally 'equated' with Sundays and holidays for the purpose of calculating pay (and related benefits like 'vacation days earned' -- to two decimals). Midsummer eve was equated with Sat. (which paid 1.5x in 'OB tillägg') of this employer. Employers count differently under their agreements.

Your quote involves 'equating' days with each other for bean counting purposes.

Agneta Pallinder Apr 4, 2014:

ledig afton - no need to take leave Deane, I think you are wrong about xmas eve etc - here is the official legal statement of whether these days would count as "leave" or "semester": "Lördag och söndag räknas inte som semesterdagar annat än i fall som avses i 9 § tredje stycket [this is the special case of people who regularly work Sat-Sun and take leave of less than 5 days]. Med söndag jämställs allmän helgdag samt midsommarafton, julafton och nyårsafton. Lag (2009:1439). Ref. here https://www.notisum.se/rnp/sls/lag/19770480.htm

Deane Goltermann Apr 4, 2014:

Perhaps I'm a little overly definite, but... If this is a personnel policy statement (like it reads) you are defining legal relationships that, nearly always reflect a collective bargaining agreement. Work hours, pay levels, or other compensation that are enforceable under these agreements. If the person wants to have the whole day off on Xmas eve, they have to apply for and be granted 'leave' for the 5 hrs here, usu. as vacation pay (but this can sometimes be 'unpaid leave').

My employer usually says, if you can get billable hours (i.e. words), you work! I have a hard time negotiating with myself ... Even when all of Swe celebrates my B-day on May 1! ;-)

The Wiki misunderstands and overstates reality. 'combining holidays, de facto holidays and other forms of leave (e.g. vacation)' misses the fact that 'de facto holidays' has no legal definition or standing. People count out the specified hours and apply for legally enforceable leave forms (vacation, parental leave, or similar). 'de facto summer holiday' for summer vacation days is an extreme stretch. This contains as much reliable fact as a puff piece for the Sun.

Deane Goltermann Apr 4, 2014:

Defacto is really misused in the Wiki reference. In my (corrected) response to Agneta, the point is separating what is legislatively designated and what is not. When not legislated (= 'bank holiday'), the employer sets personnel policy (usu. after negotiating with the unions). These are indeed not 'public holidays' in any sense since there are not legislated and most people actually do work (some) on these days.

Your context refers to work hours from 8.00 to 13.00 on these 'eves'. There is nothing 'defacto' about that - it is stated personnel policy for this employer. And employers in general have a variety of policies in this regard, each regarding their scheduling, or delivery needs.

Similarly the 'eve' of a holiday in Swe refers to the whole day before the holiday, as in 'Xmas eve day'. So there is nothing 'work-free' about a shortened work day that is 5 hrs instead of 8. This sets a lot of legal definitions such as pay levels for those who do work (think hospitals, buses, trains, those 'on call', etc.) When defined as 'regular work hours', these get regular pay, when equated with a normal Sat. pay levels rise (usu. x 1.5), when equated with a Sun. or public holiday, pay levels are usu even higher.

Agneta Pallinder Apr 4, 2014:

"not red but often workfree" Svenska Dagbladet lists 2014 holidays and includes Midsummer Eve, Xmas Eve, New Year's Eve as "ej röd men ofta ledig" http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/har-ar-de-roda-dagarna-und...
But it looks to me as if your text is talking about giving shortened working hours to the day before the "workfree" days listed, which would be why they include Easter Saturday, which otherwise would not have to be listed. I think perhaps saying "de facto public holidays" or even "certain de facto public holidays" might be an option for the "lediga aftnar"

Richard Green (asker) Apr 4, 2014:

de facto public holidays Agneta, your comment to Deane's suggestion made me think - could we use "de facto public holidays" to solve this?